potential work problems

Thanks for the information - I will look at the Singh info closely.

JohnAsh, how does this work in my favour? By using EEA law instead of British law?

Andy,

How exactly my wifes friend and her husband benefit I am not crystal clear on. This is mainly because what I know is based on what my wife knows from talking to her friend, rather than me talking to him directly. He did explain to me his dual nationality, which seems to match what you have said, the rest is less clear to me. However, the dual nationality thing seems to explain a few things.

A) that my wifes friends visa took a day to process in Manila. I assumed it was a conventional spouse visa. I am wondering now if it was through this alternative route that you are discussing.

B) her friend had to apply for what I was lead to believe was ILR but whatever it was it was submitted a month late and she was approved - that doesnt sound like UK ILR to me - they work to a deadline.

C) they have both been discussing citizenship. She is applying for Irish citizenship and not UK citizenship.

Her route in seems to have been a whole lot easier.

Its a puzzle that I have been trying to resolve in my mind for a while. One things for sure is it has been a different process with the same end result but seemingly so much quicker and easier.

John, you are a legend, thank you so much. Thanks again to Keith for the Singh information - although I must assure him, teaching jobs in Ireland are very very difficult to come by, that's why so many are heading over to London etc. The information has made two people very happy

What you say about the visa, well that's interesting. Part of me wonders if there is a backhander involved!?! But maybe not, as there seems to be so many bloomin' visa types.

From what I know of so far, Irish Citizenship will only be possible for your wife's friend if she lives in Ireland for a couple of years before the application, so I presume they are living there? I'd love to know the full story, but what I know thanks to you is useful - it proves it can be done this way.

Minor point - the Irish passport is a bit of an irrelevence in a way, one doesn't have to have one to actually be entitled to Irish citizenship - in the case of someone from Northern Ireland. However, it's much easier showing it than explaining the implications of the Good Friday agreement to officials not in the know, when all they can see is a British passport.

Since the posts yesterday, I've had a look at more information, but it is still hazy and not concrete. I think that it's time I went to an immigration advisor, and report back here and make a specialist thread because I'm sure some people in a similar position to myself, and it would be nice to contribute information here rather than just relying on the kindness of others all the time - I feel like a bit of a leech! At least I have Singh to fall back on, should that be the only option available (I'll even work in a warehouse or supermarket for three to six months in Ireland, no problem), and for that I feel much happier. It's gonna happen one way or the other!

Andy, yes, I only know half the picture with this couple. They both currently live in the Isle of Man, which isnt completely and utterly the UK. But do go with what Keith is saying. And like you say, the way forward is for you to use your Irish passport.

The problem I have in understanding their situation is that my wife and her friend dont understand each others routes. But they dont dwell on it. They kind of just accept they are both here, one way or another. So I just get snippets of information and am left trying to piece it together.

Getting detailed, precise information out of a Filipina is like getting a clean sheet out of Derby County's back four

I think that's a big reason why Filipinas are generally cheerful - they put many things down to the Grace of God. Sadly, Immigration doesn't have the same attitude!

Heh. Remember Cloughie and the good old days!

Now that is very true in my wife's case.

Nope! Robert Maxwell and the bad old days. Just missed out on the good stuff.

There is an article here:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/shock-as-...thrown-out-of-britain-1-5505434#comments-area

and a Dutch immigration lawyer comments on Singh. I have tracked her email address down to ask her if I can use my Irish nationality as allowing me to Singh it baby here in the UK, rather than stack shelves in Cork for 3-6 months (will do it if I have to). She seems quite professional, she might ask for a fee...but being Dutch she should appreciate my tight-arsed approach! Will inform of the response, should anyone be interested.

Allow me to save you the money about half way down https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/surinder_singh_for_dual_british


"
Having now considered this matter further and discussed with legal
advisors, our amended advice is that, as the EEA Regulations are currently
drafted, there is nothing to prevent the family member of a dual
British/Irish citizen from qualifying under regulation 9 as a result of
the British/Irish citizen having resided in the Republic of Ireland as a
worker or self-employed person (since the Republic of Ireland meets the
definition of “EEA State” in regulation 2(1)), provided all of the
requirements of regulation 9 are otherwise met. We are considering
whether we need to amend regulation 9 to better reflect the relevant
case-law (including McCarthy) and this matter is still under
consideration."

I was just going to say, wait until Keith Angel gets back to you on this. And lo and behold...

Thanks. You know your stuff. My brain can barely cope with my floundering.

Hmm, not looking good:

The Home Office has not produced any guidance on this specific subject. However, in the case of Shirley McCarthy (case C-434/09), the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that Directive 2004/38/EC ('the Free Movement Directive') is not applicable to a Union citizen who has never exercised his right of free movement, who has always resided in a Member State of which he is a national and who is also a national of another Member State.

So that is the precedent that has been set. But. It says never exercised his right of free movement. I've worked in Northern Ireland (thus Ireland) and England. I worked in Holland for five months in the year 2000. Surely that counts as exercising my right of free movement?

I'm really impressed, and wonder when his Immigration Advice business will start. I'm starting to owe quite a few beers now.

W h a t?

Whilst I wouldn't disagree with the principle you are suggesting it unfortunately doesn't advance your cause first you would have to Marry in the Phils then apply for a family permit supplying all the evidence of you exersising treaty rights from 15 years ago in Holland (Work) which would be refused (Northen Ireland is still considered by the Government to be part of the Union) You would then be faced with an appeal 6-13 months and unless you represent your wife yourself the legal costs. If you loose and you can dispute a point of law in the reasons for rejection you may appeal to the Higher Tribunal who may if they see a point requiring clarification send it on to the ECJ in Europe so if your lucky and they agree voila new case law but thats 3 years down the line and your missus is still in the Fils. If you loose the HO can ask for their costs.

You could renounce your Brit Citizenship and live here as Irish that would work but you would have to remain qualified for 5 years untill you had obtained PR

I wonder how my wifes mate's hubby fit's into this? I will have to ask him when I see him next.

So basically the path has not been trodden to even be visible yet. And it would not be practical or possible for me to tread this path due to a) finances b) time.

There is one point that I am interested in - you say it would be refused on the constitutional status of Northern Ireland as being part of the UK, which is obvious and indesputable.

My point is how the Good Friday agreement affects that on an individual citizen level, as surely that actually takes priority in this case, as both governments recognise my Irish nationality - and my right to determining this myself.

EDIT - I see what you mean. I have worked in Northern Ireland. This constitutionally doesn't count as working in Ireland obviously. Nationality doesn't come into it. I don't think I've worked one day in the Republic.

I shouldn't have to renounce being British - in fact, I will not. I used to have lumps knocked out of me for having a semi-English accent, and having an English mum. In my mind, any positive benefits that come from growing up in a land at a time where around you is violence and paranoia and your extended family are getting shot and blown up, well - I don't feel bad for claiming them. Not at all.

I am all in favor of principled individuals continuing to forge new case law on freedom of movement that must be a question for you.

I am not familiar in any meaningful degree with the constitutional issues you raise to have any view

What I can say is the Her Majesty,s Governments Policy is to obstruct as far as possible its citizens from enjoying European Law in these areas where ever they are able.

Personally in your situation I would not think twice about surrendering my British Nationality while my country is discriminating against me

My wifes friends hubby has a similar syndrome but the other way around. He left N.Ireland as somebody tried to blow him up. He was of the opposing persuasion.

I visited N. Ireland last summer, for the first time. Really enjoyed it. I want to go back and catch up on what I missed the first time around. I discovered Loch Neagh was where the Isle of Man was created from.