The facts about Islam

You mentioned texts in the Koran being taken at face value. This is a text from the bible which, taken at face value, can only mean one thing.

And it sure does........ok ..the difference.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that***** they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. *********They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Plenty of other quotes here. Loving God my Jacksie!

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

This is a conversational medium, not a blog; Methersgate used an idiom he felt sure you'd understand.

I find your opening post offensive and it seems to me that you are a latterday crusader dissing one of the world's major religions and heavily promoting another - to the extent of proselytizing. In your opening post you make a sweeping statement and would have us believe that all Muslims are the same as those crazed fanatics who have hijacked Islam for their own evil ends - IS, Al Qaida, Boko Haram and Abu Sayaaf, to mention but four. You obviously have had very limited exposure to Muslims and yet condemn them all as "bad people".

There are some on this Forum who grew-up living in Muslim countries and/or worked and lived amongst them: your description would not be one they would recognise.

And please: no more proselytizing.

Well said.

I have answered WHY in previous posts.
At the end of the day...we have make our own minds up overall.

I have experienced his love and power.

Can only speak for myself.

No where have I said they are BAD PEOPLE. show me?

Just bad THEOLOGY or IDEOLOGY.

I have Muslim mates - great people.

quote me - don't misquote me.

As for those groups you mentioned - they are MURDERERS.

and will end up in Hell. FACT. (if they don't repent).
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." REV 21v8.

And Christianity hasn't? I beg to differ - the Crusades weren't fought by monks armed with little more than a wooden crucifix, you know.

We are talking about a "consistent trail here......"

The crusades have provided some of the most frequent arguments against the Christian faith. Some Islamic terrorists even claim that their terrorist attacks are revenge for what Christians did in the crusades. So, what were the crusades and why are they viewed as such a big problem for the Christian faith?

First of all, the crusades should not be referred to as the “Christian crusades.” Most of the people involved in the crusades were not truly Christians, even though they claimed to be. The name of Christ was abused, misused, and blasphemed by the actions of many of the crusaders. Second, the crusades took place from approximately A.D. 1095 to 1230. Should the unbiblical actions of supposed Christians hundreds of years ago still be held against Christians today?

Third, not that this is an adequate excuse, but Christianity is not the only religion with a violent past. In actuality, the crusades were responses to Muslim invasions on what was once land occupied primarily by Christians. From approximately A.D. 200 to 900, the land of Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Turkey was inhabited primarily by Christians. Once Islam became powerful, Muslims invaded these lands and brutally oppressed, enslaved, deported, and even murdered the Christians living in those lands. In response, the Roman Catholic Church and “Christian” kings/emperors from Europe ordered the crusades to reclaim the land the Muslims had taken. The actions that many so-called Christians took in the crusades were still deplorable. There is no biblical justification for conquering lands, murdering civilians, and destroying cities in the name of Jesus Christ. At the same time, Islam is not a religion that can speak from a position of innocence in these matters.

To summarize briefly, the crusades were attempts in the 11th through 13th centuries A.D. to reclaim land in the Middle East that had been conquered by Muslims. The crusades were brutal and evil. Many people were forced to “convert” to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. The idea of conquering a land through war and violence in the name of Christ is completely unbiblical. Many of the actions that took place in the crusades were completely antithetical to everything the Christian faith stands for.

How can we respond when, as a result of the crusades, the Christian faith is attacked by atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and those of other religions? We can respond in the following ways: 1) Do you want to be held accountable for the actions of people who lived 900+ years ago? 2) Do you want to be held accountable for the actions of everyone who claims to represent your faith? Trying to blame all of Christianity for the crusades is analogous to blaming all Muslims for Islamic terrorism.

The Crusaders, maddened by so great a victory after much suffering, rushed through the streets and into the houses and mosques killing all that they met, men, women and children alike. All that afternoon and all through the night the massacre continued. Tancred’s banner was no protection to the refugees in the mosque of al-Aqsa. Early next morning a band of Crusaders forced an entry into the mosque and slew everyone. When Raymond of Aguilers later that morning went to visit the Temple area he had to pick his way through corpses and blood that reached up to his knees. (1) The Jews of Jerusalem fled in a body to their chief synagogue. But they were held to have aided the Moslems; and no mercy was shown to them. The building was set on fire and they were all burnt within. (2)

The massacre at Jerusalem profoundly impressed all the world. No one can say how many victims it involved; but it emptied Jerusalem of its Moslem and Jewish inhabitants. Many even of the Christians were horrified by what had been done; and amongst the Moslems, who had been ready hitherto to accept the Franks as another factor in the tangled politics of the time, there was henceforward a clear determination that the Franks must be driven out. It was this bloodthirsty proof of Christian fanaticism that recreated the fanaticism of Islam. When, later, wiser Latins in the East sought to find some basis on which Christian and Moslem could work together, the memory of the massacre stood always in their way.

Steven Runciman A History of the Crusades vol.I (Cambridge University Press 1988; first published 1951) pp.286-7

Sources:

(1)Raymond of Aguilers XX p.300; Gesta Francorum X 38 pp.204-6; letter of Daimbert in Hagenmeyer op.cit. p.171; Abu’l Feda op.cit. p.4 and Ibn al-Athir op.cit. pp.198-9 describe the massacres. The latter gives Raymond the credit of having kept his word. See also Ibn al-Qālanisī Damascus Chronicle p.48.

(2) Ibn al-Qālanisī loc.cit.
​

in the "old" testament--god ( i.e jehovah-jah-yahweh-elohim-adonai-jove---whatever you may like to call him )---is recorded as directly killing--or ordering the murder of--- over 2 million people. satan the devil killed the children of Job.

i know who i prefer to worship.

All the best with that x your meet him if your that keen one day x

http://ed.ted.com/featured/AyqDI3A9

Interesting video showing the basis of religion's reaches back to the stone age, which lets be fair we didnt know any better back then did we. But today we do due to increased inteligence and science. Religion is based on the thinking of historic man who had some ideas on how he thought life should be lead. It is nothing more than that, the writings of a few telling others how to lead their lives and more often than not saying those that don't follow these teachings are evil / different and should not be tolerated. Religion is and always has been a reason to be ****ty to others that don't tow the same line as you.

Didnt Christianity take most of its writings and religious holidays from the pagan Teachings?

Interesting thread choice for a fairly new member that smacks of a troll to me

Good point (first paragraph)
Not true (second line)
Not true (3rd line)

The crusades was but one example of the extremely anti-social behaviour typified by worshippers of your god throughout history. The Spanish Inquisition is another as is the French Revolution and if we come more up to date and concentrate on its main branch - Roman Catholicism - we find that its clergy are some of the worst offenders in causing human misery on an industrial scale. From paedophile priests in Ireland, the UK and elsewhere in the First World to a "church" in the third world that actively co-operates in suppressing and keeping poor its own congregation. And that's just as true in the Philippines as it is in the Mexico, Argentina, Brazil and the rest of South America. The flow of money is one-way in that organisation: to Rome.

I have been in many Churches in the Philippines - several Catholic - and far from oppressed.

Some great believers amongst them.

The only money I offered was to a dear priest who was housing 11 families in his chapel....and that was of my own volition.

I love the faith of the Filipino people - its a shame they get ever so slightly corrupted when they come to the West and the lure of the filthy lucre after a while.

Its not surprising Faith is almost a dirty word here.

You entitled this topic "The facts about Islam". I have yet to read one put forward by you. Plenty of generalisations and hypotheses but facts .....

FOLKS ! thanks for the banter and all the opinons.

I'm done and no offence as I said before - a good debate.

have a nice evening.

Because I dont believe can I say I'm bored or isn't that PC?

The rest of the UK feels the same, evidenced by the dwindling attendance figures in churches.

There are Christian members of this forum who don't bother people with religious threads.
Likewise, there are agnostics and atheists who feel the same.
It is never a good debate.