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Pistols at dawn?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Methersgate, Jul 7, 2017.

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  1. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Spreadsheet Phil has just issued a courteous demolition of the economic case for Brexit:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...amburg-service-based-economy-uk-a7829561.html

    I will venture to guess that he did not do so without first having "sounded" opinion within the Conservative Party.

    We have been told that the Maybot intended to sack him after the general election, had things gone her way. The fact that she did not ,suggests that she cannot.
  2. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Difficult to believe anything you read in the press these days .

    Let's just hope that we manage to extricate our country from EU domination, then we can once again trade as a great nation state. :like:
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  3. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Let us hope that we save our country from the Fascists, the racists, their dupes and those whose understanding of current affairs is tinted pink with nostalgia for the Britain that some of us grew up in and which was really rather squalid. The Britain that palmed off inferior goods on semi captive markets, the Britain of casual racism and homophobia, the Britain of weekly baths, bad food and housewives walking into doors on Friday nights.
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  4. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    How kind of you to label the people who voted leave in such derogatory terms.

    Whats so hard to understand that in life there will be winners and losers? It seems losing is the new winning. Lost the war, won the battle. I really despair of this country sometimes.
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  5. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    For Andrew that was quite polite! Of course he is terminally confused as to who the Fascists are - they're the ones who believe they are always right and only accept democratic decisions when they reflect the "correct" result.

    Maybe you should move to England where, I read, schools have banned competitive games so that everyone can claim to be a winner and no-one a loser. Maybe football should take a leaf out of that book ... ban Wimbledon whilst they're at it ... and Strictly .... the gee-gees (sorry, Ma'am) ...
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  6. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    No; a short review of the inglorious history of Fascism shows much reliance on the Popular Will as expressed in plebiscites and contempt for representative democracy.

    Who lost in 1975 and spent the next 42 years whingeing, scheming and plotting to get the result that suits their devious dishonest and in some cases xenophobic agenda?
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  7. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Lib Dems naturally dislike plebiscites because they tend to be on the losing side! Two-nil is the score, I believe! :)

    Gosh ... have I got to name and shame? How about Jeremy Corbyn, Dianne Abbott and John McDonnell, will they do? :D

    Many of those who voted in favour of the Common Market in 1975 will have voted to leave the EU in 2016 because they no longer agreed with the whole concept. To label a sizeable proportion of a county that heads a 52 county bloc - the British Commonwealth - that includes countries of every continent and peoples of many different races, colours, religions and creeds "xenophobic" is deflective paranoia. One could justifiably argue that Europhiles are xenophobic because they actively discriminate in favour of white Europeans.
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  8. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Brexit has happened and the talks are ongoing.
    No amount of unnecessary point scoring will change what the British people voted for.

    To be in control of our own destiny in the future is something that cannot be underestimated.
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  9. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    To be reduced to poverty and an international bad joke, whilst our society and government fall apart and we become a failed state is something that cannot be underestimated
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  10. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Rob he's not labelling all the people that voted to leave that way, he's labelling some of them yes but the real point is that those forces behind the drive to exit the EU have been around for a long long time and it is those forces that have manipulated the argument and the discussion for so long that finally they got a broad enough spectrum of support to do what they wanted irrespective of whether it would be good for those who voted for their point of view.

    Politics is not about truth or rationality, I wish it were, it is about desires, the people that voted for leaving the EU were a very broad spectrum, that spectrum ranged from some people who adhere to outright Fascist and racist views to a great many people who are nothing like that, but the drivers of the argument were the extremists and in the end they convinced enough people to vote the way they wanted.

    We all know that this vote would never have happened if it were not for internal Tory party politics, they were influenced by their fear of the far right i.e. UKIP a party that had NO seats in the UK parliament until Carswell.

    Germany was not full of bad people, it wasn't full of Fascists but it did reach a political critical mass which allowed the Fascists to rule disastrously for their own people and everyone else on the planet, populations make mistakes, that is the lesson of history, and if we are to learn that lesson then we need to guard against the steps towards that kind of world.
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  11. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    It must feel bad being a remainer, always having to hope for the worst in life.

    Brexit will be a success!
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
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  12. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    When?
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  13. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Its just a bit sad that some of the arguments have been irrational at best, downright pathetic at worse, with references to Nazi Germany and all kinds of hysterical language. It would be nice if it was all discussed in a rational way, but I fear this wont ever happen. All I'm seeing in cheap point scoring. Yes, I welcome discussion, yes I did vote remain, yes I acknowledge this whole thing is about internal Tory politics, but lets remember Labour are behind it as well, and its now no longer 'just' a Tory party issue. As I said, we just have to get on with it, and if the end result is not good, we could always vote in a pro-EU party to undo that. Now, the only problem is would any party be willing to defy the result of a national referendum?
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  14. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    In two years time,
    unless the deluded remainiacs manage to bugger things up.
  15. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    It almost sounds as though you are willing for all this to fail, and you would be the happiest person in the world if it did. Strange.
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  16. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Rather strange that people wanting to pull back from the increasing German domination of Europe are branded Nazis. o_O
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
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  17. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    No, Rob. I am one of the now 54% who are seriously worried by the temerity and the folly of those who are rushing our nation,in despite of all rational evidence, towards this catastrophe and who are determined to do our best to stop you.
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  18. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    There are very few Nazis in today's Germany. There are rather a lot of atavistic racists with a taste for simple explanations and for authoritarian government in today's Britain.
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  19. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Not another frickin poll. :lol:
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  20. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Why, has another referendum shown 54% are in favour of staying? Of course you know opinion polls are just that, what actually matters are the results on polling day, so just remind me when this newer referendum was held showing your claimed 54%.

    Here's my bold prediction; there will be no disaster; Britain will not morph into a third world country. In the end, as always happens, the best way forward will be found for all parties concerned, to suit both the UK and Europe.
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