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EU..... This I well believe...........

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Aromulus, Apr 24, 2016.

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  1. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    I knew that something of the sort was in the offing, and ideally, in my view, the UK is better off outside this club, especially if Turkey gets a way in.

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  2. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Its frightening, more integration frightens me it really does, its like a minnow trap once the fish is inside the bottle it cannot get out.

    I am hoping that if the UK votes for the door then other Eurosceptic countries will follow, if we vote to stay then that will be seen as giving the green light to deeper integration by other European leaders.
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  3. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    That is the way I have always understood the EU commitment to "ever closer union".

    Cameron's (supposed) opt-outs are laughable, if the UK votes to remain in the EU it will not be status quo.
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  4. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I'm sure the good citizens of Wessex had nothing at all in common with the people of Mercia...
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  5. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Getting out of the EU is the first thing.
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  6. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Really?! Doesn't language, culture and customs count for anything these days - or are you going to rap my knuckles for being politically-incorrect in mentioning them?! :p
  7. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    That is the nightmare scenario facing the architects of Europe - if Britain exits, Sweden will very likely do likewise and Ireland's continued membership could not be guaranteed. There are also one or two of the former Warsaw Pact countries that are somewhat less than enthusiastic with the Franco-German-Belgian direction of travel. This is all a huge distraction from their aim of a centrally-controlled European Superstate devoid of any meaningful democracy. I fully expect a vote to Brexit to be rejected by Brussels, especially if the winning margin is low.

    If we remain, we will have no say regarding the imposition of the TTIP terms and, make no mistake, that will include the very real threat of privatisation of our NHS with big American Corporations taking-over all health provision and quite possibly our schools too. TTIP really only benefits the US with just a few scraps thrown to us Europeans.

    Cameron's faux Euroscepticism and his fawning behaviour (towards Obama) will be his undoing. If he was truly pro-British - rather than simply being pro-European - he would have delivered a similar speech to the one by Hugh Grant's Prime Minister character in "Love Actually" and told Obama politely and diplomatically to 'take a hike'.

    But hey, if you want to be part of a superstate that is milked into poverty by corporate America, then vote to remain within the EU.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    You have an interesting view of our friends and allies.

    I think that the world is rapidly becoming a more dangerous place, and I feel much more comfortable inside the EU and closesly tied to the USA than I would do in isolation.

    Curious that the only leader of a big power who wants us to leave the EU is Vlad Putin. Wonder why?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    Im torn between thinking the EU would be better off without us to being irritated by there willingness to enter into such deals with Dodgy Dave and Turkey then there is TTIP another reason to be unsure if it would really take ten years vote out in a heart beat.

    The quality of the debate generally from the two groups is a bit like playground scabbles and nothing on either side to recommend they are all buffoons , if they were smarter they would be patronising

    A plauge on both there houses:)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    One of the effects of Facebook is to reduce debate to "memes".
  11. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I'm a little disappointed by the debate too, there are few or no facts that can be offered from both sides of the campaign.
  12. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Hmm ... you appear to have an interesting definition of "friend". A friend is honest and isn't a confidence trickster. Would a friend lead you to believe that you and he had negotiated a legally-binding deal for him then, after you agreeing to remain in the club, to turn around and tell you otherwise, that he had his fingers crossed behind his back and that the so-called deal will be vetoes by him and his friends?

    Indeed it is but, given the experience of recent events on the continent, I wouldn't trust 'them' with our security. The US security services work hand-in-hand with our own and that would not change in the event of Brexit.

    I also think we are better off distancing ourselves from a continental Europe that is fast becoming increasingly hard right wing - witness France, German, Austria, Hungary, Poland .... I would not want to see a rise in popularity of EDL, or whatever the successors of the National Front/BNP are calling themselves this week.

    Maybe he believes in democracy which the EU does not.
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  13. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    There has been little other than a barrage of negativism from the 'Remain' camp who are intent on spreading doom, gloom and despondency; they are obviously people who have little good cheer in their lives and seek to make everyone else as unhappy as they are. The 'Leave' camp has been far more upbeat and positive, in my view.
  14. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I certainly agree that the leave camp are more upbeat, I feel upbeat about the UK leaving the EU too :). But neither side has a crystal ball, the fact is nobody knows what will happen to the UK economy if we exit the EU, I'm of the opinion that any downside to us leaving will be much outweighed by us being able to control our own destiny.

    If the remain campaigns biggest argument is that the UK economy will suffer in the short term then I believe its a price worth paying.
  15. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I notice that the older you are, the more likely you are to want to leave the EU. My 14 year old son reports that nobody in his year at school wants to leave, and none of them can understand why the fogeys want to condemn them to isolation. And so it goes through each age group - the older and the less educated you are, the more you want to leave.
  16. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    If I didn't know you better Andrew I would say that you are calling us all uneducated :)

    Your son is correct about the younger voter, I am pinning my hopes on the younger voter staying away from the voting booth come polling day as they tend to do as opposed to us old codgers who tend to vote.

    The thing is with the younger kids, they do not know of anything else but being part of Europe.
  17. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    or sometimes you may know to much
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  18. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Some of us remember life before Europe. We certainly were not alone nor were we isolationist.

    To say that those who want to Brexit are uneducated is uncalled for and rather insulting.
  19. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    I will start drawing my pension from August, so that puts me well within the "old" bracket, and on the balance of probabilities I may be less educated than your good self, but my excuse is that I lost both my parents by the time I was 14, so it was either work, or starve... I still managed over the years, to read some the Classics, by Virgil, Homer, Horace, etc, etc... The Hyliad from latin... I self taught myself German, french, and a good dose of spanish, I do understand some Dutch and a lot more of welsh, although I am not too confident in speaking them, and my wife and her friends are very careful when they speak their klingon Bisaya language when I am around, as they know I understand more than I let them suspect....
    I have travelled the world a couple of times over, and learnt along the way much more than I would have been taught in any school, I have read extensively, and not just fiction. I may know bugger all about nuclear fission, space travel, quantum phisics or oil exploration, but I know what's wrong with the car, and given the time and tools I can fix it, I could re-wire a house, pilot a boat safely, muster people, and lower them safely on lifeboats (DSB), and much much more.
    So, I feel a liittle demeaned by your remark of the "less educated"..

    In your opinion I am not able to see or distinguish when I am being mabe a fool of by a bunch of unelected extra politically correct morons that know absolutely nothing about hard work and sacrifice and want to dictate to the majority how to lead their lives.
    I am afraid that you are viewing the EU through some rose tinted lenses that make everything look... Rosy...
    Wake up, Andrew, smell the coffee. They are taking you for a ride.
    The youth will thank you for voting "out", for letting them keep a heritage, history, pride in their country because political union will speel doom for the UK as such.
    The EU in its form, is like a huge PONZI scheme, and one day will collapse, it is creaking already, only your lenses won't allow enough light to see through them...


    I am going to bed.
    To be continued.
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  20. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Frightening to hear that your son's whole year at school has been indoctrinated with pro-EU political propoganda.

    Do the kids get detention if they dare to disgree?
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