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Civil disobedience..........

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Aromulus, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Disgraceful what is happening in the US.

    It seems that liberals of all sorts, are sabotaging Trumps efforts to run the country.

    Incorrect briefings, legal manouvres to stop travel bans,( which were ok when Obama was in charge) Trump insulted and vilified at every turn....
    The clinton clique seems to have a very impressive reach into every facet of US bureocracy.

    I am not a great fan of the man, but let him have a go, can't be worse than Bush or Obama
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    On va voir.
  3. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    c'est vrai..
    • Like Like x 1
  4. oss
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    oss Tech Guy Staff Member

    Dom he will be a lot worse than Bush or Obama or any prior president they have ever had.

    Democracies have checks and balances in order to prevent abuse of power, the American democracy is currently exercising some of those checks and balances, does executive order have the right to violate the constitution, they are testing that right now, god help us all if it comes down on the side of executive order as then you have a dictatorship and it's not only the Americans that will suffer from that dictatorship.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Mattecube
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    Mattecube Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Neither Clinton or Trump were a good choice rock and the hard stuff springs to mind!
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Isn't it staggering that the Americans, several million of whom would have been better choices, ended up with those two!
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    This is money talks louder than words.........
  8. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Amazing that the losers wander round dressed up as pussy heads, or dick heads or whatever...
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Well-Known Member


    I think the executive order was an un wise move and not required as I can`t see what it achieves ..
    That said,I doubt that it was "unconstitutional" but only the Supreme court can decide that so let the process roll out..As it will!
    IMO the TRO will be lifted and the order will be re activated.
  10. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Well-Known Member

    George Soros and his elitist ilk are financing the sabotage..Many of the violent protesters are being paid by the hour.
  11. Markham
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    Markham - Lifetime Member

    I couldn't agree more, Andrew. I have a deep mistrust of any democratic process where sheer wealth - or worse, patronage - determines outcome but as I understand it, Clinton outspent Trump by a significant amount. Which is surprising given that both she and Obama assumed that she was Obama's heir-apparent; predicating her entire campaign on that false assumption went a long way to costing her the election. Then so publicly dismissing a decent percentage of the electorate as "deplorables" in the final days of the campaign sealed her fate. She is reputedly more hawkish than Trump with the fear that she'd engage Putin militarily in Europe from the comfort and safety of her fallout shelter under the White House lawn.

    It is clear to me that Trump listened to Farage and took his advice to target and bring onside that segment of the population that had been left behind by globalisation, ignored by Washington and, in theory at least, should vote Democrat but who Clinton ignored throughout her campaign - until she dissed them, that is. Farage had adopted a very similar strategy during the Referendum campaign - and it worked.

    America has a Big Problem. Too many of its media outlets and broadcasters support the Democrats - and nobody really trusts Fox News (the only major Trump supporting broadcaster) - with the result that there may be deliberate mis-reporting or issues being spun to make Trump appear to be an ogre. One such is, of course, Trump's Executive Order imposing the temporary ban on persons who hold Passports issued by seven countries from entering the US for a period of ninety days. What appears to be glossed-over is the inescapable fact that it was the Obama administration that, in December 2015, issued an Executive Order whereby nationals from 5 Muslim countries could no longer make use of the Visa Waiver scheme and that their visa applications be strenuously and rigorously scrutinised for an initial period of six months. Two further countries were added in February 2016. There had been no review of Obama's policy, nobody knew if it had effective and Trump wanted answers and to allow his administration time and space to conduct that appraisal, issued that fateful Executive Order.

    To my mind, the reaction in America - and around the world - was completely overblown and ignored the fact that in 2011 Obama banned all Iraqui Passport holders - and anyone else with an Iraqui stamp in their Passport - from entering the US. No adverse reaction to that. Also, Trump's election pitch to the American people was to cut down on immigration and to make America safe; he was delivering on his pledge. And more importantly, nobody cares that most Muslim countries impose a travel ban on Israelis and anyo90ne else who has visited that country. The hypocrisy is sobering.

    I don't much like the man nor do I approve his nepotist appointments. But he has been elected by the democratic process adopted by America and our government has to conduct business with him just as it had to with all his predecessors. And, of course, the Queen has had far more despotic house guests that the perma-tanned reality TV host. Apparently many of the 27 EU leaders attending yesterday and today's Council of Europe meeting in Valletta, have spoken rather too critically of Mr Trump. And that could return to bite them on the bum in the weeks and months to come.

    So far Trump's progress as a leader would be just as hilarious as Corbyn's if it weren't all so darned serious.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

  13. Bootsonground
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    Bootsonground Well-Known Member

  14. Mattecube
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    Mattecube Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Trump,,,,,Gone by the summer impeached,shot or traveled to Mexico and no one would fly him back
  15. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    We did say that Trump would be an interesting and controversial leader who would always be in the news :)

    Just a small set back for Trump, I'm sure he will have the travel ban reinstated next week.

    Rather refreshing to see a leader carrying out his campaign pledges unlike on this side of the pond, Clegg and university fees spring to mind :)
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Markham
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    Markham - Lifetime Member

    Unfortunately leaders of western democracies are seldom, if ever, held accountable for their failures even those resulting in massive loss of life, potentially or actually, otherwise George Bush Junior, Obama, Blair, Merkel and Cameron would all be seeking sanctuary. On that basis, Trump is very safe.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Markham
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    Markham - Lifetime Member

    Not forgetting Clegg and the Lib Dem's EU Referendum pledge!
    • Funny Funny x 2
  18. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    On balance, this is probably a Very Good Thing.

    If they felt they were in any danger of being held to account, they might try to cling to power in the manner of third world dictators and there would be loss of life.
  19. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Are you suggesting that the Liberal party sometimes tell blatant lies? :D
  20. Markham
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    Markham - Lifetime Member

    Certainly but the converse is also true. Blair was emboldened by the certain knowledge that he could lie to Parliament, the Queen and the British people without him being held accountable for his words or actions. I see that one of his scions has been selected as a future parliamentary candidate; one can almost hear the cries of twenty years in the future: "like father, like son".
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

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