Bohol land wanted

IMHO, most of the time you do tend to get what you pay for in Phils...

I'm hoping that they feel they got themselves a bargain by booking with us. We will try to position ourselves close to the higher end places to stay, with regards to comfort and facilities, and far away from the backpacking rough and ready hostel type of accommodation. And be happy to do it for half the price of the more expensive ones!

Yes John I agree with this up to a point, this fits when it comes to using low paid construction workers to build a house, but there is another side of the coin to this, they tend not to know what they are doing a one man job needs two men, they will not work any other way, mistakes are all to common on a build site there, I was able to observe this with my neighbour who was building there at the same time as myself, 3 months into his build and around a half million spend P140K had been wasted on mistakes made by the construction workers on his site and much of that was down to his Foreman, eventually this neighbour went Aff his Fecking Heid, this was after a retaining wall collapsed on to the house during storm Odette and it cost him P580K to have this fixed, of the 1.5 properties he had built one finished and one only half done, even the finished one has not been lived in for around 18months.

The very worst problem of all was this neighbour was managing the site himself, but he never did get all that involved spending so much time in the Bars there, he would attend the site daily but the workers tended to take charge of him rather than the other way around, he was not cut out for this and tended to let the workers do it their way, eventually he was to spend less time each day on his site. these properties are now up for sale likely promoted as being built to western standards, where in fact they are quite the opposite to this.

The example of the Bamboo and Sac Sac structure over the Resto Bar is a very poor example of this type of structure as there is so little bracing been used there? this is destined to fail in a high wind. The tried and tested method to join the Bamboo is a splined joint (this being a wedged peg knocked into pre-drilled holes) to then be finished with a rope binding and this allows some flex to be had during high winds, there was no evidence to this in that Pic, likely this whole structure is stitched together using nails, Bamboo does not take a nail all that well and tends to split at the nail holes, the modern Pinoy construction workers of the present day know little of the old tricks of the trade, if you strike the point of a nail with a hammer and blunt it over there is a lot less chance for it to split the wood when it is driven in to it, rubbing a screw thread on a bar of soap makes it so easy to drive them into a tight hole, I guess KY jelly will do much the same? I would show all these little tricks to the Pinoys on my site only to find this was all new to them.

This would be similar to the way that an oak-framed barn (for instance) is built wouldn't it? In that there are many pegged joints.

It may be the case that we use some steel framing, clad in some way, certainly for the main load-bearing elements of the structure. I used the photo as it (and the others) are part of a 'mood board' to give a sense of what I'm looking for, rather than a faithful representation of what I intend to build. Nonetheless, any advice and insight is welcome, and I agree with your assessment of bamboo being nailed. It's going to fail in ordinary circumstances, never mind the stresses of a full blown typhoon.

The photo is from a place near to where we are going to build, but down on the coast -beach club Bohol. I'm not sure of the topography of the area, but it will be interesting to see how it fares over the next few years.

One thing is for sure about building in Bohol is to not leave things to chance. If you don't take the ferocity of Mother Nature into account when planning, the likelihood is that you're going to regret it quite quickly. Some of the decisions we take might appear to be belt and braces, but I don't really want to be wandering through a pile of broken sticks and collapsed walls when I'm in my late 60s, and I'd rather spend the money than face that.

I appreciate much of what you are saying especially when you say you want to have a belt and braces attitude to your construction, I am of the same opinion, unfortunately your Pinoy construction workers are so far removed from yours and my opinion, twice during my build we had a storm first it was not all that bad but my workers needed a few days off to sort out their houses, after this we had storm Odette and their houses had to be sorted out again for a second time, now you may think I am going over the top and making them out to be worse than what they really are, perhaps you are even thinking I get some perverse sense of pleasure from this?

In my lifetime I was fortunate to rub shoulders with many tradesmen and I learned so much from most of them, one of which was a Master Carpenter I was 30yrs of age at this time and he was 70 the same age as I am now, at the time I was making a Picket Fence and he was letting me use his Planer Thicknesser, he was to give me advice at this time that changed my attitude to construction and not to always think heavy is strong, he said when you make a wooden gate make this very light, if you make it heavy you will have the Postman slam this shut twice a day and he will wreck it, 35yrs later that same light gate was still standing and working as good as it ever did, this friend of mine had worked in the furniture industry for a large part of his life and he was to on to tell he has repaired many heavy dining chairs but few of the ones done in a lighter weight frame.

With the above in mind this is where Bamboo comes into its own it is both light and strong with the ability to flex also it is readily available and cheap to purchase, but the downside of it being it is subject to termite damage and perhaps not suitable for long term use? For my own build I used a lot of heavy gauge angle bar in thicknesses of 3.5mm and 5mm and this was used to form a pillar and beam framework plus the roof trusses, this proved to be a very expensive way to go and very time consuming, welding, then cleaning before multiple coats of paint were applied 25 x 5ltr tins of paint were used on this, the ten tins of topcoat cost P2K a tin, painting large units such as roof trusses, pillars and beams never does work out all that well? then there was the monolithic slab this used an incredible amount of steel rebar as there was beams cast into the floor, with my own belt and braces attitude I went way over the top with the amount of steel that was used, I believe the price of steel today has jumped to over 50% more since the time of my build. If I was to do this same build again I would only use the light gauge GI steel 'C' channel, this would also be used for the roof support and instead of large 'A' framed trusses I would used engineered beams in a warren truss pattern. If you were to google the Octagon Bar Dumaguete there you can see a great example of this style.

Here is a Pic showing a well braced roof complete with IMAC uPVC roof sheets, with its added ventilation this is a very cool roof, however having it at a 45 degree pitch was not one of my better ideas and now regret not doing it at the standard 30 degrees.

I looked at the Octagon Bar in Dumaguete - that's the kind of thing I was suggesting in that we could build it with a steel frame, but not lose the natural feel of it because of the use of bamboo and nipa.

My initial thoughts were to clad the metal components too, but they aren't obtrusive and don't detract from the natural ambience. I've seen it where the metal is painted too, and I like it, but then that's another annual job that will only make things look worse over time after half-assed attempts to repaint have been carried out. It does look good though



I was reading plenty about treating bamboo using submersion in borax (or maybe boric acid - can't remember) by the BambooU people and also the YouTube Becoming Filipino channel. They say it can extend the life of the bamboo up to 30 years by which time, probably neither of us will be bothered by the need to replace. As you say, it's cheap and plentiful, and to an extent. typhoon resistant. And it's really good looking. I'm convinced that we will need to incorporate natural materials if we aim to attract the Instagrammers. Each of the A-frames will have a swing or hammock or egg-chair and some form of covered seating area like a pergola. And of course, the bar-resto will feature it, so I'm more than happy to use it, even though it will eventually become edible.

The way I had in mind was to cast the monolithic slab which would be at the deck/patio level, with rebar poking through where the A-frame would be constructed. I thought that we could then lay a Light Steel Frame (LSF) floor flat onto the concrete, weld it to the rebar, slosh a bit of cold galv paint/Hammerite on the exposed joints and welds, and then concrete the frame down after we've connected the two roof panels. This gives us a raised floor, with the roof fixed down with a great deal of determination, and and abundance of nuts and bolts.

The alternative would be to screw down the floor channels using Rawlplugs as per a previous post of yours, which would then leave a void beneath a Hardie floor, through which any electrical and plumbing cables/pipes could run. I don't really think that, if it's done properly, the entire building would fly away in a typhoon.

One of your comments a while back suggested that an A-frame, being such a steep pitch would act like a sail in a typhoon, and end up three barangays to the west. It echoed my own worries, but I knew that I'd seen plenty of videos where A-frame cabins had been built right on the ridge of some pretty exposed hills near to Tagaytay. I did a bit of research and discovered that a shallow-pitch roof is more likely to be ripped off than a steeply-pitched roof. As counter-intuitive as it seems, I think there's a lot of high pressure and negative pressure that causes this effect, and that there's almost like a suction effect that becomes more pronounce, the flatter a roof is. Here's a video which answers the question



This internet is a wonderful thing. Information and knowledge-sharing has helped to replace your Master Carpenter to some degree, and I'm really enjoying gathering knowledge and tips from yourself and others. Bringing up the topic is proving to be invaluable, and the beauty of it all is that the information remains available to others.

The land will become ours on Friday, all being correct as far as the paperwork goes. All systems are go from our end, albeit at the cost of my current account, which has been changed from NatWest to first direct after NatWest held on to £8000 that I was transferring to my Wise account, and didn't bother to tell me that they had it. When I phoned to ask if they had got it, the snotty cow on the other end of the line refused to put me through to the fraud prevention team, and refused to allow me to escalate the call into a complaint. She said that someone would contact me within three days.

Naturally, this wasn't good for me, so I told her to put on my notes that I wanted a call within the hour, and wished to complain. I complained. They stood by their action. First Direct offered £175 to switch current accounts. I took them up on it.

I also opened a regular saver account with them, for which they are currently offering 7%, which is..... yeah, 7% more than I was getting with the cash in my NatWest or Wise account.

My budget for the build has been calculated with the aid of a dartboard and three darts.

I have £10,000 for the pair of three-car garages to be built set back a car length from the edge of the road.
I have another £10,000 estimated for the six A-frame bases
I estimated £5000 for drainage and septic tanks
I'll put aside £2000 for connecting electricity and water to the site
The wild guess for the construction of the house is £25000 based on 15,000php per square metre
I've allowed £10,000 to build each of the 6 cabins
I've put by £25,000 for glazing
And finally, I've guessed at £10,000 for a bit of landscaping and tarting up

That totals £125,000

Then I have about £25,000 left over for contingencies and to throw up a bamboo roof over the resto area.

If any passing construction estimators and quantity surveyors would like to put in their two penneth'worth here, feel free.

Our idea is that rather than throw everything up at once, and have everything unfinished, we take it in stages. If we have two or three cabins available for rent, they would bring in very welcome revenue with which to finish the project, should the budget, contingency and windfalls not prove sufficient.

Also, we aim to be there when a lot of the work is carried out, and can spend a month there at a time - probably in March, which is hopefully dry, weather wise

Questions

1) Is there a ready-mixed concrete supplier on Bohol? I've found a company called Kimwa Construction, but can't get any idea of their location on Bohol, only in Cebu.

2) Anyone got a suggestion on wages for unskilled labour and a skilled foreman per day?

3) I thought of having a pretty good lock on the garages as they will be the main stores. Anyone got a suggestion on how to make it as secure as possible? My idea was to actually brick it up, as it won't be opened until the following March, but the standard of blockwork and the soluble nature of the hollow blocks might make this a futile gesture.

Towels on your sun beds, there's chb and chb:

East Berlin, Germany. Building the wall. Armed guards making sure no one escapes to the west.
Chris would be better off with this lot rather than Filipino's, love those cinder blocks.

Just like most things in PH clever thief's and Organised Crime hardly exists? what you are more like to get are disorganised opportunists (unlikely to carry any tools) that want an easy access through an open window, many years ago I built a wooden garage with a big picture window to give me lots of natural daylight on my workbench, to fool any would be intruder I installed wooden dowels across the inside of the window when painted black it looked like metal, I have known of a couple of cases where Foreigners have had tradesmen do work in their houses and for them to return at a later date having observed an east access point, in the rural area of your site I would guess this to be a very low risk area?

Have a look at Phil Souths web site on this site you will find costings for labour and they give examples of labour costs against the materials used such as a painter will get 40% of the material cost and an electrician may only get 20% as the materials for this are quite high, they will also give pricing for the likes of a CHB wall per metre or the overall cost of a CHB Septic Tank. 2yrs ago I was paying my pretending to be skilled workers p400 a day which was p100 more than they would get anywhere else, my Neighbour was paying a foreman P750 per day, he was no better than any of the other workers on the site only he was the eldest.

If I was to build again in the Philippines, I would not consider a Monolithic Slab it is so very expensive to do this, I would guess it cost me at least P250K for mine to cover an area of 145M2? the ready mix 25M3 plus transfer pump was 130K, DPM was 10K this was thin and quite useless, the layer of gravel for the foundation layer and capillary break was around 20M3 and cost P20K, prior to this the soil treatment against termites was 8K, it is the price of the rebar used that I cannot remember, the beams cast into the slab had around 120kg of steel per 1M3 with 70kg per M3 for the rest, as I said some of this is guesswork, at todays prices I would think this would be close to P375 to 400K, in my opinion it is folly to extend a Mono slab to include the Patio this becomes very expensive when using simple block paving would do the job nicely or some other cheap alternative?

Now my choice of foundation to build on would be concrete stem walls, this can be done a a fraction of the price of a Mono slab.

I would suggest that Video showing the the pro's and con's of certain roof pitches was done there in the Philippines and it never did show the optimum roof pitch of 30 degrees provided it is a hipped roof, doing a little research on the subject of 'A' framed houses there seems to be a consensus of opinion that they are not so good in high winds being of such a rigid design it is said they tend to rattle loose? I myself do not think they are all that attractive, however I did see one of a pitch that may have been closer to 55 degrees, this looked more aesthetically pleasing to my eyes, it lowers the ridge height and is that bit closer to a perfect triangle with all sides being equal and likely to give a little bit more living space inside?

I think I've been using the term monolithic slab when I shouldn't have. I don't intend to cast the entire slab in one. I have only ever seen a trench dug on the perimeter and beneath loadbearing walls, then backfilled, gravel, blinding sand, DPM and a four inch layer on RMC. Apologies for the confusion.

Stem walls, with formwork to raise to the level of DPC, and zero blockwork is what I'm really looking for, but that in itself is going to raise problems (as far as I know) because of the slope on which we will be building - and of course the cost.

The possible solution would be to use a much higher standard of block. The ones that Richard Armstrong was using are the RAAC that has caused so much controversy in Britain recently. The problems lie, as I read it, with the ingress of water into a product in which a degree of permeability is an inherent characteristic, its effect on the rebar, and the lack of structural integrity over time.

I'll look into the cost of some proprietary concrete footing blocks, and avoid the DIY blocks like the plague.

I think the patio areas, pathways and driveways would look pretty good if they were pattern-stamped, coloured and sealed. I've been driving my taxi around and quite like the appearance of these driveways. I can get the better quality silicone stamps, which, although really expensive, produce a much better finish that the crap available on Lazada and the like.

I also like the brushed concrete look when alternated with smooth floated edges. All this is many years from now, but it's nice to do a little window-shopping.



I don't think I communicated that part of my ideas very well regarding the slab and patio, and must have given the impression of a two-week continual pour of concrete from top to bottom of the site.

Regarding the roof pitch of the A-frames, I'm inclined to agree with you in that a shallower pitch tends to be more pleasing to the eye, although a perceived increase in space within the A-frame is offset by the decreased pitch of the roof rendering much of the space close to the junction of 'wall' and floor unusable - but then we are dealing with Pinoys, many of whom could pass under a dining room table without incident or injury!

I saw on one of Richard Armstrong's videos that he handed a couple of tins of black enamel paint to his workers for them to touch up the metal guttering on his new house, then disappeared into town. On his return, he found half of the upper floor walls had been painted black.

I think I'm going to have to be camped on site whenever there is work being done. I can probably afford a month there each year, and as long as I can find labour willing to work this way, I'll sleep better at night.

I do like that path and it would not be expensive to do, however if it does not have expansion joints within the length of it this will crack especially in UK with the large difference in ambient temperatures.

For the life of me I just do not understand your fixation to have blocks of any description for a foundation stem wall, do it in concrete and you have complete control of the mixing, pouring and consolidation of it with a vibrating poker, on a slope you just do a stepped Foundation Log, much like a set of stairs, this tends to be stronger than a straight and level Log, a stem wall at only 4inch wide will be stronger than any block wall of 6inch, provided it has been mixed with low water content and vibrated to consolidate it, using phenolic 8'x4' boards cut lengthwise up the middle for formwork will give you a nice very straight 2ft stem wall to then build on, protect the cut edges of these forms and they can be used many times, with this in mind steel angle bar can be used for the framework of the forms, have a look at the videos of the Texas Filipino and you will get a good idea of how this is done.

We have some new pathways like that in the town - the problem is the smooth part is like an ice rink in the rain. Also, if the path doesn't drain properly it will encourage moss which then makes it even worse... Maybe the ridge/grooved finish is better for your liability insurance...



This kind of thing @HONEST DAVE ?

You'll sleep much better at night if you can see what's going on that's one of the reasons I suggested you get some CCTV up and running before you let Bob the Bodger and the boys in It won't stop them messing it up and totally ignoring what you asked them to do but at least you'll know what they've done before they go too far!

Yes correct that is a vibrating poker, my neighbour bought one similar to this and around the same price this worked well for us both, however when a lot of work has to be done or even one really large job a second is required especially if ready mixed is used, this is to speed things up on a big job and also if one breaks down ( to be expected at that price point) the job can still carry on, a form Vibrator is also a good thing, I had a hammer drill with a jack hammer function and we used this to vibrate the forms this worked to very well on pillar forms but would be useless for a slab.

The poker type has to be used in the correct way, mostly when you see them getting used on videos they do not use the proper technique, often dragging them across the concrete, also they do not hold them long enough in any given area, when they should be slowly pushed down into the mix held for around 5 secs and take 3 secs to remove, if done too fast it can leave a void at the point of exit, these small cheap ones cover a small area of only around 18inch the larger ones cover around twice that, there is a good visual indication of their coverage with the escaping air bubbles, there is the danger of holding the poker too long into the mix to encourage the aggregates to sink down to the bottom, used in the correct way this is an essential tool when laying concrete and gets the maximum PSI strength to any concrete mix, belting the forms with a hammer like the Pinoy's do is no Fecking good.

Putting down any hard landscaping outside, Paving slabs, Concrete paths anything at all even a grass lawn and especially there in PH, this has to be laid so there is run off for any surface water, this is a very common fault with most Septic tanks over there, they have a concrete level top and a concrete slab always has slight deviations with little puddles forming, the tank I did in PH has a one inch run across the short side, also the covers are sealed with tile grout, I've often thought it would be a good idea to have them under a Car Porch, on this same subject I run the grey water into a separate leaching tank, running it with the black destroys the intended digestive system.

In my view the only way for a Foreigner to run his build site is to give constant personal supervision, leaving the site for a short duration of time they will revert back to their old ways thinking they know best, even when you are standing over them they are liable to do some stupid things.

The day before our big Mono slab was getting laid, the last thing I asked them to do was to make sure the formwork was sitting square and true and that everything was level, I watched them do all of this, making sure they purged the 10mtr plastic water pipe to make sure there was no air in it, using this over 3 or 4 points and then to do the same again in reverse, I really did dot all the I's and cross the T's bearing in mind we had 25M3 of ready mix arriving the next day, in spite of all this they managed to get the slab one inch out of level, later I realised I should have just set the spirit level on the forms and would have discovered their mistake but I trusted them after all everything was double checked? this was to cost us a great deal of wasted time and many compromises had to be made, later on they made this same mistake again on another part of the job, they really are just a bunch of ten year olds and unbelievably stupid.

Personally I cannot imagine CCTV cameras adding any value to a site other than security? in my view no work should ever take place without boots on the ground supervision, even then these dummies fooled me, there is just no other way to deal with these Cupid Stunts.

@oss - thanks for the comment about the thread, but i think the applause should be directed towards @HONESTDAVE who is an absolute gold mine of knowledge.

This morning I am more than a little concerned about the lackadaisical nature of the Filipinos.

We agreed to buy this land, with the purchase price being 1m pesos. As far as my research went, we needed to do the following;

1) go to the Registry of deeds to ensure that the lot for sale was legit
2) Don't trust the seller in any respect. Appoint your own lawyer
3) Arrange a survey of the land to make sure the mohon stones (upturned buckets of concrete) are present on each corner of the lot. Have the GPS points of these stones listed to establish the boundaries, and that adjacent lots do not overlap
4) Agree a Deed of Sale with the seller
5) Ensure that the seller has paid all the Capital Gains Tax using the correct selling price. Ensure that they have paid any Inheritance Tax. Ensure that they have paid any Agrarian Tax. The seller will be given a Certificate of Authority to Transfer Title.
6) Have every document notarised
7) Attend a meeting (or have your representative attend), and sign an Absolute Deed of Sale
8) Hand over the money. Receive the Title Deeds in return.
9) Pop off to the Registry of Deeds. Submit the Old Title, the BIR Certificate, the Absolute Deed of Sale and the Survey to them there.
10) Wait six to twelve months for it to be processed.

A lot of these procedures have been implemented in order to prevent disputes, and to minimise the risk of fraud and scams.

Houston? We have a problem.

Because we are in the UK and the land is in the Philippines, I've left my wife to deal with this because of not wishing to pay the Foreigner Tax. I have been pulling the strings from behind the curtain as it were.

One of my wife's friends at work hails from Bohol, and she volunteered the services of a friend to go to see the land with the Realtor. Another of this colleague's friends works in the Registry of Deeds in Tagbilaran City, and although a different office to the one we would be dealing with, is at least au fait with the procedures.

We appointed a lawyer, recommended by one or the other, (and since given good reviews by other people we know who had purchased land or property in the same area).

We insisted on having a fresh survey rather than trust the survey that was carried out last December.

Our Lawyer, who is also a notary, has taken over the purchase of the land on our behalf. He has been in contact with the sellers themselves.

The sellers don't have a pit to poss in. Lawyer has suggested that we pay the 70,000 pesos for the Capital Gains and other taxes/fees, as the seller can't afford to pay them. This will then be subtracted at the final meeting, meaning we would hand over 930,000 to the seller, with the lawyer retaining 70,000 which would be taken to the Bureau of Inland Revenue in Tagbilaran City, the Certificate of Authority obtained, and then proceed to the Registry of Deeds to lodge the documents.

This is a bit unorthodox, but it would still mean that we had not handed over a peso until we had the original deeds on the table.

So we have agreed to this.

We have also appointed a family member to oversee all this. It's not exactly a blood relative as Melody worked for 6 years for this family, looking after the mothers of a couple. She is doted on by the surviving Lola, and woe betide anybody that tried to put one over my wife. I think the Lola would turn them into a Castrato without blinking, if Melody was made to suffer. So he comes highly trusted. He will fly into Panglao the day before, stop overnight in a hotel and attend the meeting the following morning, and once agreement has been reached, go with the Lawyer to the PBI to withdraw the cash for the seller and for the tax. Because it's such a large amount, this has all been pre-arranged.

Now to the problem.

I'm borderline paranoid about this.

We had the survey done on the 10th of August, yet we have not been sent a copy of the survey.

We have had the money for the tax in the Philippines, available at a moments notice, but were told that the tax could not be paid without the Title Deed, and I can't understand why the Seller could not pay the tax, with the Lawyer in attendance, and the Lawyer holding the Certificate of Authority to Transfer Title, and the Seller the Title Deeds until the final meeting.

We have yet to see a signed copy of the initial Deed of Sale.

Our man, together with the first person we involved (the one who walked the land) and our Lawyer will now meet with the Seller on Friday where apparently all of this paperwork will suddenly materialise;~

The Absolute Deed of Sale
The Original Title Deeds
The Survey

All Notarised. All associated fees paid.

Once agreed, the Lawyer and our family member will go off to the bank, get the cash and return to the office. pay the seller, and shake hands. Our family member will have signed everything on our behalf, being given Special Power of attorney to do so.

It should be noted that our family member is an accountant. He has his wits about him. Not the sort who fetches coconuts down from trees for a living.

Our Lawyer will be left to proceed to the Bureau, pay the taxes and lodge the paperwork. All we will have is a photocopy of everything.

I'm a bit concerned, nay, paranoid that so much of this procedure has drifted away from the established ways of doing things, and I'm relying on my trust that the original Title will at least have been surrendered by the Seller, and that our family member will have signed every piece of paper put in front of him.

I'm going to ask readers to vote on this. My wife is confident that everything will be ok. I'm less confident, and fear that my retirement plan of sitting in a rocking chair, enjoying an ice-cold Red Horse will be at risk.

Vote Agree or Disagree to the question;

Should we continue to trust that the purchase will go without a (serious) hitch?