WARNING: Spain will not issue visas to Filipino wives of Brits

I've tried to help you John. I imagined that's what you wanted. But it appears that you just want to wind me up.

I'm sure you'll disagree, but Solvit, the European Commission and the Defensor del Pueblo already agree that we have suffered an abuse at the hands of the Spanish Consular staff, that they have not followed their own established procedures, and ridden roughshod over European legislation in their efforts to block our attempts to secure a visa which, (as is detailed in many, many documents that I have provided for you to peruse), is our right,

I'm not really concerned how long you do or do not decide to hold your breath, although I'm beginning to waver towards 'quite a bit longer than is considered healthy'.

I will repeat this for the hard of thinking, as you certainly appear to be; WARNING: Spain will not issue visas to Filipino wives of Brits

If you can find me one single piece of legislation which states that couples must have lived together for one year prior to applying for a visa, I'd be interested to see it, no, utterly flabbergasted, and suspicious that you made it up.

I've spent the last three years studying and cross-referencing the legislation which covers the right to visas for family members of EU citizens who have exercised their rights under the Freedom of Movement Directive 2004/38/EC.

I've employed the services of a lawyer who has spent the last ten years dealing with the problems that develop from Consular staff who decide that they are judge, jury and executioner, rather than a person who fulfills an administrative function in accordance with the law. He agrees wholeheartedly that we have a cast-iron case against the Spanish Consulate in Manila.

The Spanish Foreign Ministry themselves clearly state that a marriage certificate is sufficient, and no qualifying period of marriage is required prior to application for a visa.

Marriages of convenience do exist. I have read and re-read the guidebooks that are given to Consular staff, to establish whether we had done anything which may have triggered their suspicions. But being as A) We both speak the same language, B) We had met prior to the wedding, C) We planned to live together D) We enjoyed a 'proper' marriage, and not one conducted in the ante-room of a Barangay mayor's office, E) No money changed hands F) We were not married in the presence of other couples being married at the same time, G) We did not marry in a place notorious for conducting arranged marriages, I concluded that we had not.

However, assuming that they 'had a hunch' and were acting on it, they subsequently gave us no opportunity to allay their fears, requested no additional documentation - even when offered, did not call us to interview - even when I travelled from Spain to the Philippines and made myself available.

Your puerile remark regarding which marriage certificate you would trust, were you to have a Filipino one in one hand and a British-issued one in the other stinks of your own personal prejudice and xenophobia. You must be a bundle of fun, and a never-ending source for your wife of opportunities to apologise.

I do feel sorry for your wife - she's obviously born the brunt of it all.

People trafficking is indeed rife in the Philippines, as is paedophilia. Referring to my wife as a girl is a bit suspect John. She is 35 years old, and tougher than you might imagine.

Now, whichever marriage certificate you hold, I would encourage you to roll it up tightly, and shove it somewhere where the sunlight can't damage it.

Adios, hijo de puta.

Thank you for trying to help me, actually if it wasn't for your posts I'd probably wouldn't have found this:


It would be infinitely more helpful if you were to clarify whether you were aware of:

For spouses of Spanish/EU nationals – Spanish/EU marriage certificate (issued not more than 6 months ago) recognized by the Government of the corresponding EU national. Marriages that are not registered/recognized by the corresponding EU Government will not be processed as an EU spouse visa. Only marriages recognized/registered by the corresponding EU Government are free of charge.

Before your wife made her 3 applications for a VISA or your read it later, after the applications were rejected?


Applying for a Schengen VISA doesn't have to be complicated, this site has some great tips:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/

There's even a section on "Common Reasons Why Schengen Visa Applications Get Rejected":

1. Past or Current Criminal Actions
2. False Travel Document
3. Insufficient Explanation For The Purpose And Circumstances Of The Planned Stay
4. Damaged Passport
5. Passport Invalidity
6. Lack To Proof The Travel Itinerary
7. Invalid Letter of Reference
8. Insufficient Means Of Subsistence
9. Unacceptable Birth Or Marriage Certificate
Additional cause for a failed Schengen Visa application is not being able to offer birth or marriage certificates that are accepted (not authenticated) by the embassy or consulate.
10. Invalid Travel Insurance
11. Lacking to present a Proof of Accommodation
12. Unfavorable Schengen Visa Situation

Full version here:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/common-reasons-visa-applications-get-rejected/


And another section on "Top Mistakes to AVOID during a Visa Interview":

Behind every REJECTED Schengen visa stands a REAL REASON for it.

Incomplete Supporting Documentation
Find out early enough which are the documents that the diplomatic office recognizes as a prove your education, your marital status, your booked accommodation, flying ticket, language skills and more. Prepare these documents in one place (folder) at least a day earlier the interview and make sure to go through the checklist of requirements, to make sure you haven’t forgotten any of the documents.
Take the folder with you with documents well-organized, together with needed copies. Let the visa official understand that you know well visa requirements and that you are familiar with all documents within the folder, by offering documents in order, quickly as he/she requires. Getting lost in the folder by NOT knowing what are the documents in it, will make the worst of impression.
...

Disagreeing With The Visa Official
Arguing with the visa official during the interview session is another reason why the visa interview might go wrong. Increased tone of voice, bad approach towards the visa official only shows you are a destructive individual that does not have respect for the authority that representative of the diplomatic office enjoys.
In its place, in case you have any objection about what the official dialogues, use a very sophisticated language and a calm tone of voice when clarifying the exploratory issue.


Full text here:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/top-mistakes-to-avoid-during-a-visa-interview/


All good information, I'm sure you'd agree, for next time

Setting aside the differences of opinion written I would really like to know the outcome CampelloChris
Has there been any developments?
Best wishes,
Mike

We issued a writ to MAEC for their treatment of us and constant breaches of European Directives and Spanish Law. Now you may remember that it was MAEC themselves who took a full EIGHT MONTHS to provide the Defensor del Pueblo (Ombudsman) with a reply when questioned by them. Their response was that we did not have a genuine and stable relationship, (a statement to which the DDP objected and included within their annual report to the government),

It was decided that too much time had expired between the alleged offences and the time that the writ was served.

The people who made the decision whether or not to allow the writ to MAEC to stand?

MAEC.

So, they basically have the authority to decide whether or not they can be sued, and they chose to ignore the flagrant offences committed and reject the writ.

However..... I was curious as to whether they had changed their ways, or were still making it up as they went along...

With the joys of anonymity provided by the Internet, I'd like to introduce a new character into the proceedings.

My name is Michael Foster.

De: Michael Foster [mailto:MickeyFoster@mail.com]
Enviado el: sábado, 26 de agosto de 2017 18:13
Para: . Con. Manila
Asunto: Visa enquiry


Dear Sirs

I am a British man, living in Malaga province in Andalucia. I am married to a Filipina and need to find out how we go about getting my wife a visa to come to Spain.

There is such a lot of information on the internet and it has all become very confusing. I'm sorry to bother you, but could you answer some questions please, because I can find different answers depending on the website that I visit?

1. Is the visa for the wife of a British resident in Spain free of charge? I have heard that it should be, but I have also heard that there is a 60 euro charge for it.

2. I understand that my wife will be given a visa for 90 days, and then get residency after she arrives in Spain. Is this right? Or does she have to try to get residency while she is still in Manila?

3. I have read that our marriage (in Mindanao) has to be registered in Britain, but when I asked the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, they said that there is no register and that it is not required. They told me that our wedding certificate should be all that we need, as long as it is registered in The Philippines, Authenticated (red-ribboned), legalised by you, and translated by a sworn translator. Which is true? If we can't register the marriage in the UK, what else can we do?

4. I read that my wife is considered a family member and will get preferential treatment and is guaranteed a visa unless she is a threat to European security (she isn't!) or health (no!) or we have a false marriage (we don't). This all sounds very good, but then the registration in the UK thing seems to contradict that. Will she be helped to get the right kind of visa?

I'm sorry to trouble you with all this but we are very eager for her to come over to begin our life in Spain before Brexit.

I hope you can reply soon

Kind Regards
Michael Foster


And they have replied:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 6:28 AM
From: ". Con. Manila" <con.manila@maec.es>
To: "Michael Foster" <MickeyFoster@mail.com>
Subject: RE: Visa enquiry
Mr. Foster,

We understand that the British Government does not register the marriage of their nationals in a foreign country, as it considers a marriage legal, when considered such, in the place where the marriage took place.

For purposes of visa application at the Consulate General of Spain, we do not grant a visa if the marriage of the Filipino national to a European national, British included, is not recognized by their respective governments. Since we require from Spanish nationals, following the Spanish Law, that their marriage be registered and recognized by the Spanish Government, we require the same mentioned accreditation from other European nationals as well.

In view of this requirement, if the visa applicant cannot provide the document that shows that the marriage is registered or recognized by the British Government, he/she has to show proof of the authenticity of the relationship.

He/she has to prove that there is a real and stable relationship, by showing that they have lived together as domestic partners for at least one year. This can be verified through the corresponding visa of the British national that will show if he/she has continuously stayed in the Philippines as a resident for more than a year. His/her entry and exit stamps to and from the Philippines will show the length of stay in the Philippines as well. If they have lived together in Spain or in another country, proof of this should be submitted as well.

Aside from this, the official certificates of no- marriage that were submitted, in order to secure the Filipino marriage certificate must also be provided. Without the mentioned certificates of no-marriage, issued by the British authorities to the British national, and the Filipino one issued to the Filipino national (CENOMAR), the visa may still be refused.

You may confirm in the Article 4.b) of the Spanish Royal Decree 987/2015 the information provided through the following link: https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2015/11/09/pdfs/BOE-A-2015-12090.pdf

The visa fee, as a spouse of an European national will be free of charge as long as the applicant justifies that is going to travel to Spain with the European citizen or join him in Spain.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/docs/frequently_asked_questions_en.pdf

We inform you that this Consulate General just issues the visa, the residence card has to be requested directly in Spain in the corresponding police station.

Atentamente / Best regards,


And so, I replied:

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your reply, which I found most informative. There are however one or two points which I found confusing, and which appear to contradict European Directives and by extension, Spanish Law.

On 8th February 2016, British FCO officials met with MAEC officials, and it was stated by MAEC that they were aware that Britain did not register foreign marriages, but that registration of a foreign marriage in the country of birth of the EU citizen was NOT a necessity. MAEC also confirmed that a locally-produced wedding certificate would prove the family link. Therefore, the visa should be issued (as long as the applicant wasn’t a terrorist, carrying a disease or that a marriage of convenience could be irrefutably proven).

This was detailed on a Nota Verbale, delivered to MAEC on 23rd March 2016

You have quoted RD987/2015 article 4b, but this refers to ‘pareja de hecho’ – an unmarried couple. As confirmed by your own Foreign Ministry, a locally issued wedding certificate is acceptable to them. One would assume that the certificate would need to be registered in the Philippines, authenticated, legalised and translated by a traductor jurado.

This, according to MEAC officials IS an acceptable form of proof of a family link, and the visa is therefore issued without further requirement, and issued free of charge, in accordance with RD240/2007.

Are you suggesting that this is not the case?

Kind Regards

Michael Foster


They didn't take kindly to this.

Mr. Foster,

We inform you that you will have to follow the instructions given by this Consulate General stated in our previous email and we remind you that to apply for a visa it does not mean that the applicant has the right to get the visa.

In the case that one visa application is refused, at the end of every refusal letter it is stated the ways to appeal including the submission of an appeal before the High Court Justice in Madrid.


I beg to differ.

So I wrote to MAEC themselves, and using the relevant legislation as rope, basically asked them to either confirm my stance, or hang themselves with the rope.

Dear Sir,

I am a British national, resident in Spain. I was recently married to a non-EU national and require clarification on the laws regarding RD240/2007 in relation to how British Citizens are treated differently to other EU citizens with regard to the interpretation of the Freedom of Movement Directive 2004/38/EC.

In February 2016, MAEC officials met with British Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials. During the meeting, the FCO raised the point that British citizens were being told that there was a requirement of them by Spanish Consular staff to have their marriages registered in the UK. It was explained that the UK does not hold such a register for marriages where the marriage took place abroad. Concern was expressed that such citizens were being treated as a ‘pareja de hecho’, despite being legally married and in possession of a Marriage Certificate.

The obtaining of a visa – a right of family members under the European Directive – was being denied them, and that they were being required to show co-habitation for a period of one year before applying for a visa. In some cases, RD987/2015 was being quoted in order to justify the stance of the Consulate, despite RD987/2015 being designed as an addendum to RD240/2007, applying only to extended family members, and which categorically states that it does not apply to direct family members such as spouses, children and parents of the EU citizen.

Such requirements are clearly contradictory to the European Directive, and indeed contradict RD240/2007, as is the imposition of a 60 euro charge for making the application..

During the meeting, MAEC officials assured the FCO that a locally-produced marriage certificate should be accepted by consular staff as proof of the family link, and that registration of the marriage in the UK was not a requirement.

However, my investigations reveal that 18 months after the meeting, Consular staff are still requesting registration in the UK of a marriage carried out abroad, and insisting that couples also produce proof of eligibility for marriage and provide their travel documentation to show that they have lived together for a period of twelve months prior to applying. Couples are also being charged 60 euros to apply for a visa, despite the European and Spanish legislation requiring that family members will receive a visa free of charge.

Can you confirm that Spain do not require registration in the UK of marriages carried out abroad; that possession of a locally-produced wedding certificate will be accepted as proof of the family link; that entry visas will be issued free of charge and at an accelerated process and that Consulates will be informed of the right of family members to obtain such an entry visa?

Regards
Michael Foster

I await their reply.

I'm going to Manila next month where I start my visa application to bring my wife to Spain. This story does not fill me with confidence and now I wonder what will happen when I attend the Spanish Embassy/Consulate. I wonder if I will get asked if I know any of these fictitious people, lol. Going to check the Maltese embassy as plan B.

Mike, as you can see from the first response to my Mickey Foster enquiry, they are simply making it up as they go along. They are charging for a visa which should be free of charge, then rejecting it because of an impossible-to-satisfy set of criteria which they themselves have designed, quite possibly in order to generate further income from additional applications. Either way, it's a fools errand to apply via the Spanish Consulate in Manila.

Malta do not have an embassy in Manila. It's in Beijing. I would recommend that you do apply through them though, using VFS, and write a covering letter, explaining that you will spend the three months of the visa period exploring the area with a view to settling down there together. This will get you over the hurdle of applying for a visa in a country in which you are not resident.

I don't know if you live in Spain or the UK. Be aware that if you do live in the UK, the loophole which is the Surinder Singh route is being slowly strangled in red tape and draconian demands for proof of the temporary country being somewhere that became your 'centre of life', and not somewhere that you spent an elongated holiday.

If you live in Spain, once here, I doubt whether you will face any obstacles at all.

What are your plans exactly? It might be of benefit to you to discuss them on here first, before making a big mistake.

But whatever you decide, DO NOT apply to the Spanish. You will not be successful.

Thanks. We don't want to settle in the UK so Surinder Singh route isn't relevant to us. We want to settle in Spain but maybe now I will be, exploring options in Malta - I went to school in Malta so there is some history to lend credibility to any application.
The other option is to get a regular Spanish tourist visa and apply to stay once she is here - like you say, all the trouble appears to be at the Manila end.
I'm talking to the Consulate and we will see what happens.
Maybe I should apply (and be rejected) by the Spanish to support an application to Malta = the reason why I am leaving Spain.
Much to think about, shame this didn't get resolved in all the months you were fighting over it.

My advice would be to take full advantage of your EU Freedoms whilst they're still available to you. In other words, up sticks and move to Malta. Applying for a Family Reunification Visa for your wife is simple, straightforward and cheap - you'll only pay VFS' checking and processing fees, the visa itself is free and issued within ten days. I wouldn't apply to Spain first, a rejection might cause the Maltese Embassy (in Beijing) to initiate an (unnecessary) investigation of you via its counterpart embassy in Madrid; that would only serve to delay matters unnecessarily.

Getting here from Manila is now dead simple on Turkish Airlines even though there is a four hour transfer at Istanbul.

If you apply to Spain and are rejected (and I am certain that you will be), a stamp "Visa Denied" will appear in your wife's passport.

I would suggest that your main reason for wanting to move to Malta would be the language barrier. As you know, they speak English in Malta and it would make your wife's transition to living in Europe much simpler. As soon as you are over the Schengen border, you are free to travel within the Schengen zone and you would find that you have no problems with Spanish border officials.

Make sure that your wife gets a fresh copy of your wedding certificate just before she leaves, has it authenticated at the DFA and legalised by the Spanish Consulate in Manila. Once here in Spain, you will need to use a Traductor Jurado (Sworn Translator) to be able to use the wedding certificate as a legal document - something you will clearly need to do if you both wish to remain after the 90 day period of the visa.

You should make a flight reservation. This, in this day and age is almost impossible to do as they expect you to pay up front. However, unless you have visa refusal insurance, this can cost you big bucks in the event that the application is denied. But if you go to Turkish Airlines, they will allow you to make a reservation that will be cancelled a few days later if you don't make payment. There are some online facilities to be able to make a reservation, but it's a bit pot luck. The Turkish Airlines reservation is a genuine reservation that will withstand scrutiny.

You will also need travel insurance for her. You can go to the Axa site and follow the procedure right up until the point of payment, and use a screen grab as 'proof' of her insurance.

Then, once you have your visa, you can spend your ticket/insurance money knowing that it won't be lost.

Wherever you go, whether it be Spain or Malta, either Markham or I will be able to steer you in the right direction. Please don't be hasty in making decisions because you could come a cropper if you set off the alarms.

I had neither flight reservations nor medical insurance for the wife when we applied for her Family Reunification Visa. I attached a letter to the Application in which I stated that we intended to enter Malta on 30th March and waited to make flight reservations until her visa was issued whereupon I would also ensure she was covered for medical. In the event the Axa policy was a bit of a waste of money as being a retired person, all medical costs for myself and my family are covered by the Pensions Service.

We used the Turkish Airlines reservation for the wife's brother who arrived here on a family visit at the weekend.

Yep!

Thanks Guys. I've had several meetings at my local Comisaria and agree with what you say. We are going to apply via Malta.
I am curious why you suggest I get the marriage certificate legalised by the Spanish Consulate in Manila. I get the DFA part but since the Spanish do not recognise the document why bother to get it legalised? I will be presenting it to the British Consulate in Madrid/Malaga as part of the application for a certificate of foreign marriage recognition which I will then use to obtain residency. I figured it was this certificate of foreign marriage recognition that the Spanish want legalised and not the Filipino marriage certificate.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated
Mike

The Spanish DO recognise the document Mike. They have no choice. It's a legal marriage.

It's the Spanish bast4rds in the Consulate who are pretending that there are additional requirements in order to push their own agenda. You are playing a game, and it's called Getting Your Wife To Spain. Once she crosses that border into Europe, it's virtually impossible to deport her for any reason, and certainly, any immigration lawyer worth his salt would tear them a new one if they attempted to suggest that your marriage is not genuine without some pretty damning proof.

Forget about the Certificate of Foreign Marriage Recognition - It sounds like something you should want, but it's nothing more than a 300 euro waste of paper. You won't need it. You will get residencia for your wife without it. The Spanish might accept it for the purposes of getting a visa, but they shouldn't because it is not intended for that purpose. However, for residencia purposes, nobody I know has ever been asked for it, and nothing in legislation suggests that it would be needed.

You must remember that, for the purposes of the Directive (2004/38/EC), which you will be using in order to bring your wife to Spain, a wedding certificate, duly authenticated, legalised, registered and translated from anywhere in the World must be accepted. If your marriage is legal in The Philippines, it must be considered so here.

I suggested that you get your wedding certificate legalised by the Spanish Consulate because you will need it to have been done in order to get her residencia - Legalised, Registered, Authenticated and Translated. The translation you can get done once your wife has arrived, but the legalisation should be done in Manila. It costs about 300 pesos.

I suggested that you get a fresh copy of the wedding certificate because it is unlikely that yours will be returned from Beijing - my wife's wasn't - just her passport (with that beautiful little visa sticker in it!)

To all intents and purposes, you will be applying for your wife to come to Europe for 90 days only. However, she has the right to apply for residency once here if you wish to live together. You yourself will need to show that you are able to support her - either by being employed, self-employed or a man of private means - 8500 euros (approx) in the bank- will prove that you are self-sufficient. She will apply for residencia as the family member of an EU citizen.

Please download this pdf and read it with a cuppa. It will put your mind at ease
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf

Once you swerve around the Spanish Consulate in Manila, you will find everyone else to be quite accommodating and pleasant. It is only the Consular Cretins who are causing problems.

ok thanks. I will get it legalised and then I know I have it for any eventuality. We ordered 2 copies of the PSO marriage certificate so no problem if the Maltese Consulate keep one of them.
The British Consulate say you need the Certificate of Foreign Marriage Recognition to apply for residency but I am very happy to spend 300 php to legalise the official certificate and see if it's accepted at my local Comisaria. Sounds like a good plan.

In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies; Well they would say that, wouldn't they.

Here's another guide to the legislation which will make your frown disappear. It explains what your rights are, what rights your wife enjoys, and details the procedures which you should follow.

Just one point: if Mike's wife has her Family Reunification Visa issued by the Maltese Consulate, should she not at least pay a flying visit to Malta on her way to Spain, so that at least she enters the Schengen Area at Malta?

We will fly to Malta just to be sure. No worries. Either that or have a connecting flight from Spain to Malta that maybe we don't bother to get on.

Turkish Airlines or Emirates from Manila would be your best bet in that case. Getting from Malta to Spain will be a bit more of a challenge. Ryanair says it flies to Barcelona (Girona) (but not between November and March), Madrid (Tue/Thu/Sat) and Valencia (Wed/Sat) from Malta; it also flies to Barcelona via Milan (Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat/Sun). That's if they stay in business and don't cancel any more flights! But if they are still flying, they depart mid-afternoon which is fine if you arrive on the morning Turkish flights but might be a bit tight/not-doable if you arrive on Emirates.

Family members flew with Turkish last weekend and commented that between Manila and Istanbul (on a 777-300) it was great but not so good for the shorter Istanbul to Malta hop (737-800).

Melody didn't. I wrote a letter in French (because she first landed in CDG Paris), English and Spaniardo which basically explained why Melody was travelling to Spain rather than Malta because I needed her to help me tie up a few details regarding the sale of my business prior to us travelling together to Malta at a later unspecified date.

It worked.

But Malta looks beautiful and you could make it a bit of a honeymoon Mike, if you've got money to burn.

Malta is not a destination served by any Spanish airport with direct flights (according to a search I just did). ***Norwegian do fly from Madrid for 145 euros return***

Therefore, you would need to make a stopover, usually in Rome. Prices start at around the 220 euro mark and I can think of many ways of making 440 euros a lot more fun than sitting in an airport. You don't need to travel to Malta, just a plausible reason as to why you would travel onwards at a later date. Once she is in the Schengen Zone, you are both free to travel wherever you like. Plans change, and Malta might not survive such a change of plan. Nobody is going to make a fuss about that.

Thanks.
Maybe we will fly Manila to Malta on Turkish airlines, stay a while and then fly on to Barcelona with Vueling airlines.
Or maybe just fly to Spain although I will need to consider which airport is the first point of entry.
We will see, need to get the visa first.

You came to mind today - I was wondering what you'd decided to do. As long as you're not wasting time applying to Spain, I think you'll be ok. And better if you're travelling together - not an option I had. Melody came on her own.