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Recommendations for photo manager anyone?

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by ChoiAndJohn, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Hello.

    I'm considering setting up a database to manage my photo collection which currently is just in a directory structure.

    I need a piece of software (linux, windows or mac) that will allow me to:
    1. Tag photographs with people and places.
    2. Automatically import metadata for places, dates and so forth from the photograph.
    3. Allow me to search for photos - so that I can search for photos containing a certain person at a certain location.
    4. Locate and remove duplicate photographs.
    5. Serve the photograph library via DNLA or via a web browser.
    6. I do not want an online cloud. My material will stay on my server. Online services where I upload photos are out.

    Anyone have any recommendations?
  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Adobe Lightroom will do 1, 2, 3, and 6 and it will do it on the Mac.

    The great strength of Lightroom is that edits are non destructive, the full edit history is simply reapplied to the original 'digital negative' either DNG or native camera RAW format every time you view the file.

    Having personally written de-duplication algorithms they tend not to be fast and it is a complex process to determine which duplicate in which folder should be removed, it is much easier to specify a pattern for removal when the duplicates live in the same folder as then you can usually remove the 'copy' or 'numbered' versions fairly easily and preserve your file naming scheme, when the duplicates perhaps share the same name but live in different folders it's a much bigger problem trying to decide which one to remove.

    (edit: my de-duplication algorithm did content comparison to determine if the files were identical it didn't rely on filenames, I used hashing in combination with a random sample of bits from across the file)

    Even more complex when you look to ask a Photo Library application to take on this task as the duplicates may well have different metadata and different edits applied, again Lightroom has the notion of virtual copies to allow multiple versions of an image to be derived from a single original file but again it is only the edits that are stored no actual changes are made to the RAW files, of course many people have real file duplicates in their library and I would suggest that it is better to de-duplicate prior to bringing the images into the Photo Manager/Library application.

    I don't know of any DNLA servers that would host RAW files but then again I haven't tried, I will check and see if Kodi can do this after I home, Lightroom will certainly render various types of website from your library but these are exported jpegs which have had the actual development edit history applied so these images are in fact the prints from your digital negatives as such.

    I am not sure you will find a Photo Manger that also included DNLA capability personally I would aim for that to be a combination of the likes of Lightroom and for instance Kodi.
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  3. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I agree with lightroom.

    Surprised that the original question asked only for a database, tagging, metadata, and search functionality.

    There was no mention of image correction, resize, adjustment, printing, export...
  4. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    No. I wasn't really looking for details on image correction and adjustment. I do have copies of lightroom and photoshop for all that. I know that I could use lightroom on my mac pro , but what I'm particularly looking for is a way to provide and organise a cross-platform searchable database for my entire house so that everyone can access the photo collection from a number of devices which range from tablets to windows PCs to linux machines to windows laptops & apple and android phones.

    I don't like to keep all my photographs on the mac alone you see. I like to keep them in a directory structure on a set of NAS servers and I don't want to duplicate them onto the mac pro wasting precious SSD space, and I'm not satisfied with the speed of the software when I remote-mount the NAS.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  5. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    footnote: To give you an idea - I use Plex for my large movie collection. That supports photos and I might end up using that. However I was wondering if there was something better. I might wind up using one tool to import and manage the photos on the NAS and another one like plex to serve them out. The problem with lightroom is that it isn't geared towards a NAS based folder structure. Apple products like to keep the metadata internal in some database and they don't really play well with directory structures...
  6. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Hmmm... it's interesting, I have thought in the past about writing this kind of system, essentially what you are looking for is a private intranet version of Flickr or one of the other major online image hosting systems, would you expect the content to be delivered from the RAW's or from the rendered Jpegs?

    Essentially this is a web database application designed only to run locally on your own intranet so presumably without sign-on security ?
  7. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Interesting I will take a look at Plex this evening.
  8. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Screen Shot 2017-07-13 at 12.15.23.png

    Most of my library is stored as .jpg. Once I'm happy with the picture, I throw away any raw files. I'm not that fanatical. ;) As I mentioned plex does this very well for movies. I run a plex server on my linux machine and that has a mounted drive that attaches to the NAS that contains folders of movies and TV shows in a given naming location. Plex downloads the metadata and produces me a nice shiny front end that I can view from my TV (using apple TV) or from a phone (using the app) or using a PC (using a browser) and hence use the media collection from anywhere.

    Here is a screenshot.
  9. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I am that fanatical :) every time they improve the raw processor I will go back to some favourite picture and re-develop them, I've often modified renderings many years later :)

    The thing that will be tricky for any application is the management of custom tags and custom index data as the file EXIF will not contain all the tagging information that you might desire.

    How many images are we talking about? My own photo collection is probably well over 40,000 images but I would only consider it desirable to display a small fraction of them.
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  10. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I've had a look at Kodi and while it will parse a collection of images it does not seem to natively treat this as a library that can be served via DNLA, I think it looks like it might work through add-ons, the parsing of the EXIF is rather limited and certainly no real search facilities.

    I am taking a look a Plex soon.
  11. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Well. I got plex working but I'm not happy with the performance on apple TV. It works fine from PC and Mac based clients but there's a delay loading pictures on apple TV - for a big SLR image it takes up to ten seconds to render it from the thumbnail which makes browsing a bit unpleasant. There are also no 'tagging' facilities that I wanted. The support for movies on plex is great but the photo support is miles behind and very dissapointing.

    I'm struggling to find the piece of software that does what i want. I guess I could drop DNLA. That would make my core requirements:

    1. Local server-based repository.
    2. Cross platform multiple local clients.
    3. Ability to tag the library and flexible search on the clients.
    4.Fast.

    I'm looking at Lychee:https://lychee.electerious.com this morning.
  12. Anon04576
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    Anon04576 Well-Known Member

  13. ChoiAndJohn
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    ChoiAndJohn Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Lychee works well when set up on my 'always on' linux server in conjunction with apache. but... It's HTML/Php based and so I can't view the pages from my apple TV which conveniently doesn't have a browser and one isn't available on the iTunes store for it. Surprise surprise. It also can't link to the existing files on my NAS. It would require them all to be uploaded/imported and then they all get stuck in one directory with mangled names under /var/www/html/Lychee/uploads/big ... not ideal.

    I'm kind of allergic to uploading anything of mine to remote hosts. I don't have that much faith in google to keep my information secure. I prefer to host things myself. And both google and apple can go whistle if they think I'm going to pay a monthly fee so that I can view my own photographs (size/quantity/resolution constraints).

    Back to the drawing board.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  14. Numpters
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    Numpters Active Member

    OOT but glad to know there's a sub-community of photographers/hobbyists on this forum. Looking forward to learning from you guys. And of course, seeing more of your photos!
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Ten seconds to render a Jpeg?

    God that's slow!
  16. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    So you probably need a combination of native client app for iOS and Android and a server application that will extract EXIF data from the jpegs including custom tags, allow organisation of the images in Albums, Collections (Collections of Albums), 'Photo stream' and 'Camera roll' and 'tagged view' (photo stream is order and search by date posted, camera roll is order by date taken, tagged view is filtered by your custom tags). Personally I would add automatic EXIF views like group by lens, camera, shutter speed, aperture and ISO.

    The back end would be centralised and managed through a database which would track all the above metadata and the locations of the files, the database would manage the metadata and locations but the files would have real physical traditional locations in a standard file system. The back end will also need to generate thumbnails for its front end user interface so that collections of images can be rapidly previewed.

    The server application would need a user interface (probably web based) to allow the posting management and file EXIF analysis and the association of custom tags to each image or to arbitrary batches of images as and when desired, it will need to be able to serve the file content and the metadata via a consistent protocol that can be easily consumed by the native client applications running on a TV, Mac or phone.

    It's a combination of Lightroom and Flickr with a better UI than Flickr and one that would run on more platforms.

    The back end will be a WebApi server based on cross platform .Net Core probably using a SQLite database as it needs to run on Linux, front end would be built using Xamarin cross platform tech which would allow it to work on iOS and Android phones and Tablets and additionally it would work on Windows Phone.

    Ok I'll get started on it at the end of next week, it'll take me about 6 to 8 months work at home in my spare time at night ;) :D

    Actually I would really quite like something like that myself :D I wonder if there is a decent market :D
  17. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Numpters we do have a Photography Forums section, it does not get that much use but you are welcome to post any photography questions you want there or elsewhere on the Forum in general :)
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