Moody's upgrades Philippines to "Investment Grade"

I have deliberately waited for more than 24 hours to elapse before posting any response. Firstly, I requested that these messages be split from the topic and reposted in the Dirty Kitchen. As this has not been done, I assume I have the site's administrators' approval to exercise my right to reply as I see fit. Secondly, I wanted to see if any other member posted a message which supports your view: none have - nor indeed, IIRC, has any member posted quite such rude and insulting messages as yours aimed at me, or any other member.

From the extracts I have quoted above, it's pretty clear to me that you believe that people should maintain 100% consistency and that I should either post positive messages about the Philippines or negative ones. What you fail to appreciate is that I keep an open mind and and open heart about what goes on here. And I am prepared to modify my stance if I see changes for either the good or the bad. That you don't like this approach is neither here nor there, I am not going to modify my persona just to suit you.

The last time you and I crossed swords you were reminded, by Aromulus I believe, that you do have the option of modifying your Forum Profile to include me on your "ignore" list; then you wouldn't read anything I posted. In that very same thread, you agreed that you would do this. Just to remind you, here's what you wrote on 3rd July:

The fact that you obviously didn't exercise that option rather demonstrates your inconsistency, doesn't it?

As for "what business you dable in over there" that, frankly, is none of your business but my clients would most assuredly not share your insulting opinion. And by the way, the word is spelled "dabble".

Unlike you, it seems (see earlier in this thread), I do admit to my failings. I do, from time to time, forget things - sorry for being a mere mortal with human failings.

That you accuse me of swivelling "round on your stance to suit, like a public schoolboy in a debating competition for 12 year olds" is laughable: Public schools, by definition, offer secondary education to 13+ year olds. But yours is a back-handed compliment because the main point of debating is to encourage open-mindedness by virtue of the fact that a debater quite often has to promote a view that he might not necessarily agree with.

I have tolerated your insults and defamations on two occasions now. I advise you to either pull your horns in and behave or carry out your promise to place me on "ignore". You are responsible for what you write and unforeseen consequences may arise out of any repetition.

A very good day to you.

Up to you. Those of us who live here are, to some extent, doing just that!

I have found many of your posts aimed at me, insulting.

I would be glad if you would ignore my posts. Thanks. Please do not respond to them.

Ha! What cheek!

You have no right to tell me to whose posts I can and can not respond. Your sole control over my posts is confined to whether or not you choose to have them displayed on your computer screen. I suggest you exercise it.

Some people are amazed when I tell them that the Philippine economy is growing at 7%+ a year and has been doing for several years. The obvious implication is 'why therefore does it still look the way it does' to which the answer is: the Filipino ruling class have nearly pocketed the entire benefits of growth. There is barely any trickle down as these people virtually inhabit their own world. They go and shop at major malls, which are already owned by billionaires. So they just help increase the profits of their own rich brethren. They live in vast luxury subdivisions or condominium developments, which are owned/produced by billionaire developers/corporations. They also import all manner of luxury goods from abroad. Again, this does nothing for the ordinary Filipino. Virtually nothing is state owned so there is no social wage which can be expanded with the help of increasing tax revenues (not that a lot of the rich bother with this either!). We think it is bad with the 'big 6' energy companies in Britain but look at Meralco in the Philippines! A virtual cartel and owned by one family. This goes a long way to explaining why you pay more for electricity in the Philippines than in London! There is very little scope for people getting in on this act, such is the dominance of these corporations. It really is quite sickening.

The net result of this will not be pretty. Especially when the growth does eventually slow and the rich decide to dump the losses on the Filipino working class - who will be wondering how exactly they'd benefited during these so called boom years?

I would agree with you completely were it still the year 2011 or thereabouts, but since then there have been some noticeable changes. I have lived in Davao for almost exactly 3 years and when we first arrived, there were very few new housing developments; maybe one or two and they were aimed at the higher salaried with prices of around 8 million or so. Today, there are about 15 new major developments, almost all of which are aimed at the "Pagibig" market, so costing less than 5 million or so. Only one, Avida, is a condo project with more highly-priced units and they're aimed at the Manila "Sun Bird" market. To me, that's an indication of two things: more people employed in real jobs paying real salaries and a growing confidence by Filipinos in their own economy.

Ridding this country of the shackles of patronage is going to take a long time, at least a generation or so. But there are more and more younger Filipinos who are sick and tired of the "old ways" and who want real change. And that's quite a recent development.

Some have scoffed at the notion of investing in the Philippines but four European motor car manufacturers are doing exactly that by recently announcing that they are to open dealerships in the country. And two of them are British (well, almost!). They are:
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• Volkswagen - used to have dealerships in the Philippines marketing the Beetle but pulled-out about 10 years ago, as best I can tell. As well as the iconic Beetle, it will sell its "T" series cars including the Touareg 4x4.
• Peugeot
• BMW (Longbridge) - BMW already has dealerships selling its 3 and 5 series cars but a new dealership chain is being established to sell the Mini.
• Rolls Royce - This is perhaps a bit of a surprise - or maybe not, depending on one's cynicism level - initially only in Makati but may spread to encompass Cebu and Davao eventually. This is likely to be a significant investment by the company, given that its service engineers all receive training at the factory and that spares aren't exactly "Unipart".

I read that Renault is also looking to set-up here too.

The luxury car market is dominated by Mercedes, Lexus and, for those who favour a boxier, almost Jeepney-esque look, Hummer, so it will be interesting to see how Rolls Royce fares - as will knowing what percentage of their sales are for armour-plated vehicles!

Good news for Britain and good news for the Philippines and Filipinos.

My experience living in a new Avida condominium development (Ayala's supposedly 'affordable living' condos) in QC was that a lot of the buyers were the already very well off who already owned a house in a major development. The condo was just a status thing in the same way a new car would be. They paid cash for these places. It was nothing to them. Then there is the foreigner element, of which to an extent I was a part of. Capital flight away from the recession hit west into the property market in somewhere like the Philippines?

So again, how much are the benefits of growth being evenly spread? Lots of cranes on the skyline does not necessarily indicate it is being more evenly spread. Sure, there has been and will continue to be progress but it is a such a snail's pace that it does little to poverty levels or the level of unemployment. That is the only way growth matters for the Filipino masses. What are the examples of real rapid growth and quick industralisation to learn from? Perhaps Singapore, Hong Kong? Both exceptions in many ways. Perhaps more pertinent for the Philippines.... China and Russia? These were/are essentially state capitalist with a powerful Communist Party at the helm. Again, not really only the horizon for the Philippines.

This said, I still don't think PH is a bad place to invest for a foreigner. It remains capital starved and so if you approach things right then you can do well. But again, hurdles are put in the way. The 60/40 thing is a big sign from wealthy Filipinos basically saying 'we don't want you to get in our act'. You have to expend a lot of time finding your way around the hurdles before investing and a lot are put off long before this. But the longer the political situation remains stable, then the more people will be lured in.

OK. So if I think you are talking crepe, which is frequently, then I will tell you.

Sorry for the delay

I support your right to be 100% inconsistent Mark, fortunately theres no rules here about that nor even how you choose to spell

Unforeseen hissy fit more like

I like the sense of balance in the above.