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What Britain Voted For On 23rd June

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Markham, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    According to Wakefield Council, on a turnout of 71.22%, 116,165 people (66.3%) voted for Brexit and 58,877 (33.6%) voted to Remain in the EU referendum; this despite the fact that the town's Labour MP, Mary Creagh, was a committed Remainer.

    This week's edition of Question Time came from Wakefield and should dispel once and for all the false accusations that those who voted to Leave are uneducated fascists who "didn't know what they voted for".


    Essential viewing for all Remoaners, especially the Lib Dem's newest MP, her wretched leader and Gina Miller.

    (Incidentally, as an aside, whenever I see Alan Johnson on programmes such as this, I can't help wondering why he's not leader of the Labour Party; he'd be excellent, in my view.)
  2. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I watched this and yes the re-moaners got a deserved bashing.
  3. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    totally agree about Alan Johnson. always comes across well on tv.
  4. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    He does come across reasonably well, he has does quite well from his humble beginnings of a postman.
  5. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    had several kids at a young age i think. comes across as a reasonable--honest--down to earth bloke--not fake.
  6. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    In this clip, Oliver Letwin clearly explains what Brexit means:

  7. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I watched this earlier today, he just stated the obvious that the sensible of us already knew, it really was as simple as that, problem is I am 100% certain the remoaners will not have seen it as clearly as we did and never will.

    The Government does not need to set out a five point plan, its pretty obvious to all except the remainers what the plan is.
  8. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Here's a sobering thought: If we remove Germany from the equation, Britain's nett contribution to the EU budget is greater than the combined total of the contributions of the remaining 26 members, the majority of whom are nett recipients of EU funds.

    [​IMG]

    Can one really imagine the Poles being happy with a reduction of their (almost) €10 billion annual payment from Brussels or are the French, Dutch and Italians going to make-up the shortfall?

    No wonder Juncker, Tusk and Co are threatening the worst possible deal for Britain and reportedly will demand €60 billion (£52 billion) as a severance payment from Britain. Let's face it, they want our money exclusively on their terms. France which pays around half of the UK's annual contribution has a far greater say than Britain ever has.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Let's hope that the Germans don't Germexit before we Brexit.

    :rolleyes:
  10. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    What ever the cost is of leaving the EU it is money well spent just to unshackle ourselves.

    I can feel its all going to come good after a few turbulent years, time will tell.
  11. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Wouldn't it be just great, absolute turmoil would ensue.
  12. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Theresa May's speech in which she lays out her plans for Brexit has been widely trailed. Here is a short yet highly relevant excerpt:

    "A little over six months ago the British people voted for change. They voted to shape a brighter future for our country. They voted to leave the European Union and embrace the world. And they did so with their eyes open: accepting that the road ahead will be uncertain at times, but believing that it leads towards a brighter future for their children – and their grandchildren too.

    And it is the job of this Government to deliver it. That means more than negotiating our new relationship with the EU. It means taking the opportunity of this great moment of national change to step back and ask ourselves what kind of country we want to be.

    My answer is clear. I want this United Kingdom to emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking than ever before. I want us to be a secure, prosperous, tolerant country – a magnet for international talent and a home to the pioneers and innovators who will shape the world ahead.

    I want us to be a truly Global Britain – the best friend and neighbour to our European partners, but a country that reaches beyond the borders of Europe too. A country that gets out into the world to build relationships with old friends and new allies alike. I want Britain to be what we have the potential and ambition to be: a great, global trading nation that is respected around the world and strong, confident and united at home.

    Our vote to leave the European Union was no rejection of the values we share. The decision to leave the EU represents no desire to become more distant to you, our friends and neighbours.

    We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close friends. We want to buy your goods, sell you ours, trade with you as freely as possible, and work with one another to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more prosperous through continued friendship.

    We seek a new and equal partnership – between an independent, self-governing, Global Britain and our friends and allies in the EU. Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union, or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out. We do not seek to adopt a model already enjoyed by other countries. We do not seek to hold on to bits of membership as we leave.

    The United Kingdom is leaving the European Union. My job is to get the right deal for Britain as we do. We have 12 objectives that amount to one big goal: a new, positive and constructive partnership between Britain and the European Union. And as we negotiate that partnership, we will be driven by some simple principles: we will provide as much certainty and clarity as we can at every stage. And we will take this opportunity to make Britain stronger, to make Britain fairer, and to build a more Global Britain too."
  13. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I have not heard the speech yet, but from what I am seeing on the news I'm quite happy :)
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  14. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    upload_2017-1-18_18-10-12.png

    Stephen Tall is a blogger and former editor of Liberal Democrat voice. His blog today may come as a pleasant surprise to those of us on the Leave side - but some will doubtless condemn him as a traitor!

    "I got a fair few replies to this and to my blog-post yesterday, in which I wrote:

    I can’t feign the outrage I’ve seen expressed today about our departure from the single market. Of course I think it’s the wrong choice. And yes, I think Vote Leave was deliberately disingenuous in the referendum campaign in eliding single market membership/access. It’s also quite possible that a referendum specifically on membership of the single market might have produced a different result.

    So here’s my all-purpose response to those who disagreed in various ways…

    It’s true that various Leavers said different things in the run-up to the 23 June referendum. Then again, there was scarcely unity in the Remain camp either: the visions of Cameron, Corbyn and Farron of the future of the EU were very different (even if they were mostly suppressed during the campaign itself).

    But the official Vote Leave campaign was clear: exiting the EU meant leaving the single market. Check out its official site or any of the reports from the campaign, such as that FT headline in my tweet.

    And if you don’t want to take it from the Vote Leave side, what about checking out what Remain’s Stronger In campaign had to say here? There are regular attacks on the Leavers for saying the UK should no longer be members of the single market.

    Now, as I said in the excerpt from my blog, above, I think Vote Leave were deliberately, even misleadingly, ambiguous about the distinction between membership of the single market and access to it. Its leaders would doubtless disagree.

    Remainers should, though, be cautious before accusing others of questionable campaigning: after all, the early recession many of us expected hasn’t materialised. Sure, we warned of the economic risks in good faith. But maybe we should consider Vote Leave argued to get out of the single market in good faith, too?

    Beyond the principle of it, by the way, there is another reason why Vote Leave openly supported the UK leaving the single market — it wanted to avoid being portrayed by Remain as being in favour of a Norway-style model of associate EU membership (paying a membership fee but not making the rules) as that would have torpedoed its three principal lines of attack: that the UK would be £350m a week richer outside the EU, that we could control immigration, and that we should ‘take back control’.

    One final point. I’ve previously been a supporter of referendums for settling key issues. I like the idea of a participatory democracy. The 23rd June has made me think again – and not just because my side lost (though I suppose I’ve thought about it more because it did).

    There was a fundamental flaw and structural imbalance in the referendum campaign. Remain had to defend the EU, not an easy gig after two decades of full-frontal media assault. Leave’s job was purely oppositional: to say the UK could be better off out of the EU. But I like the maxim ‘no opposition without proposition’.

    So, if we are to have future referendums in this country, we should expect both sides to produce manifestos which set out their plans for full scrutiny — as, to be fair, the SNP did in advance of the Scottish referendum on independence"​
  15. Timmers
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    Timmers Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Hopefully the subject of the leavers knowing full well we would be leaving the single market will be put to bed, it was blatantly obvious to most as it was all the remainers banged on about.

    In a couple of years we will know what it is like to be out of the single market...........hopefully.
  16. DJB
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    DJB Active Member

    Why do you continually post this sort of stuff on here ?? we can all read and watch the TV news but I suspect your intentions are to provoke arguments or wind people up.

    Or is it because you really are unsure of why you voted leave and this is some sort of protection mechanism that makes you feel better ??
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  17. Dave_E
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    Dave_E Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    That was posted seven weeks ago in the Politics, Religion and Ethics section and has generated quite a bit of interest and discussion.

    Surprised that you have only just noticed it, hope that you don't feel left out.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    Don't tell me, you've voted Remain, now have "buyer's remorse" and don't wish to be reminded of this episode which must be so painful for you.
  19. DJB
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    DJB Active Member

    No remorse just very sad after watching the news this morning re HSBC and others.

    Still once we are out of the EU fully at least we can have our bent bananas back.

    Every cloud and all that
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Markham
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    Markham . Lifetime Member

    I live at a southern extremity of the EU and I can buy all the bent bananas and misshapen carrots I want!

    As for HSBC, one day it says it is moving to the US, then it changes its mind and says it is staying in London and now it threatens to move some of its staff to Paris. When it makes its mind up, I might pay attention.

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