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Manila Bay White Sand Project

Discussion in 'News from The Philippines' started by Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020.

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  1. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020
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  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    My son told me about this a few weeks ago, he was quite concerned by reports this was happening.

    Crushed dolomite, a respiratory irritant and potential cancer hazard.

    I mean in a city where the air quality is pretty poor to start with this was probably not a great idea.

    https://www.philstar.com/headlines/...,a person,” Vergeire said in a media briefing.

    There were a couple of other scientists saying that most of this will get washed away by typhoons and tidal action.
    oss, Sep 19, 2020
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  3. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Jim, Sep 19, 2020
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  4. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Is it an irritant?

    The lakes in the Dolomites are well known to holidaymakers.

    https://www.seiseralm.it/en/family-holiday/families-in-summer/swimming.html

    I am not sure why they are alarmed about the dolomite “sand”. Dolomite gravel is used by tropical fish tank owners, all the time.

    Is the material a dust or a sand? If sand sized it won’t be inhaled. Same goes for silicosis. We don’t get silicosis from sand that is made of silica but we might get it from silica dust. I would imagine the same applies to dolomite. If they have been and crushed it from its massive form, down to a dust then maybe but if the stuff they have dumped in Manila Bay is of a sand grain particle size and washed through, then surely not.

    Ref the Rappler article. Crystalline silica. It’s the most common mineral on the surface of the earth. However in dust form it is a hazard. As a beach sand it is commonplace and presents no such hazard.

    Some of the accessory minerals in dolomite can be harmful, but it depends on the source. Hopefully they have sourced a “clean” form of what is a common rock type.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I think the way it is crushed was the concern, the claim is that it is 1 mm to 5 mm particles (5mm seems big for sand :)) there was an environment concern at the mining and crushing end.

    Also, this I presume referring to fine dusthttps://www.lehighhanson.com/docs/d...ata-sheets/sds-dolomite.pdf?sfvrsn=66124d22_4
    oss, Sep 19, 2020
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  6. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    It should be sand sized but who knows and maybe part of the worry was about dust when this stuff was being installed.

    Another major concern was that it was a waste of money I think James said it was about 318 million peso I think about 5 million pounds to make a small part of the bay look nice for what would likely be a short time, a lot of people were saying why not spend that money on children who need computers just to be at school now when they can't attend physically.
    oss, Sep 19, 2020
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  7. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Money-pit :rolleyes:
    Druk1, Sep 19, 2020
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  8. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Sand by definition is still sand down to 0.0625mm in diameter. At that size we aren’t yet talking “dust”. I don’t think they would have had difficulty grading it or washing the dust out if they wanted to. It would be just a sieving process.

    In the Canaries they import Saharan sand to cover the local black volcanic sand. For cosmetic reasons.

    F92C1849-1A2C-4C40-BD1D-E7AE7B3B4AED.jpeg

    Wasn’t the real problem that Manila Bay didn’t get flushed through and that sewage was being drained into it which led one noteworthy commentator to call it an “unflushed toilet bowl”. Isn’t that the real hazard?
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020
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  9. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is no longer sand after 2mm and then becomes gravel (granules, pebbles and cobbles) as we go up the scale.


    Lake Garda and The Dolomites:



    Some vloggers give us a tour:

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020
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  10. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Builders use the dolomite sand for making concrete. Been past where they get it from when traveling to J mall, Cebu BoI.
    Jim, Sep 20, 2020
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I think the real issues was that politically it was a waste of money at a very difficult time for the country, it's a layer of a couple of inches according to some of the news reports and others are saying it's going to get washed away quickly, I don't know how long that means, a year, two years, three years I don't know.
    oss, Sep 20, 2020
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  12. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    It appears to be just a “veneer“. I am amazed how expensive it has been. Some commentators believe it will get washed away with the next major storm surge.

    I note that they have recently installed solar powered devices to clean up effluent before it reaches the sea. Now that seems a good idea. It seems the toxicity levels have dropped already.

    https://pia.gov.ph/news/articles/1049213
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 20, 2020
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  13. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Manila Bay used to be a foul smelling soup, when flying in you could see the water colour change from a distance, any attempt to clean up the pollution is to be applauded.
    Druk1, Sep 20, 2020
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  14. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    @oss

    According to Wikipedia the grains are 2 to 5 mm in diameter. So larger than sand sized grains....

    “The Department of Health (DOH) cautioned that the inhalation of dolomite dust can cause respiratory issues.[7] However after the health department learned from the DENR that dolomite used for the artificial beach is two to five millimeters or 100 times bigger than dust, it released an advisory that dolomite used in the Manila Bay Sands won't pose health hazard since it won't get suspended in the air.[8]“

    Miami Beach, Florida
    https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/13660014/miami-beach-sand-erosion-nourishment-climate-change
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 20, 2020
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  15. Jim
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    Jim Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    The Filipino builders will nick it first.
    Jim, Sep 20, 2020
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  16. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    best if its knocked up with cement and bedded down.
    bigmac, Sep 20, 2020
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  17. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    In the 16 years I have travelled there and particularly the 3 years where we lived near Roxas Boulevard and regularly spent time on the promenade in the morning and evening it always looked like this aerial image below.

    I mean you gan go back 20 years and you never find a beach in any image Google captured and there are many many on the google maps timeline.

    I was trying to figure out where the hell they had put this sand as it did not make a lot of sense given there was no beach to speak of.

    The second image is derived from a video I found here which tells me roughly where all this sand was dumped

    The beach can't extend too far because it would encroach on the Marina at the southern end near where we lived.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][/url]
    oss, Sep 20, 2020
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  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I think I found the beach in Google's historic imagery, the chap in the video was clearly filming from that bridge over Roxas Boulevard.

    [​IMG]

    This second one almost looks like a teensy weensy actual beach.

    [​IMG]
    oss, Sep 20, 2020
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  19. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    It is certainly good that they are doing something to clean it up, when you read the history back before WWII the city was the Pearl of the Orient, it would have been something special to see it back then, one can get a feeling for what it might have been like through wandering round the old city, but even in modern times I always enjoyed a walk down the Baywalk promenade.
    oss, Sep 20, 2020
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  20. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    I was watching a vlog and the vloggers seemed to be hovering up around the H2O centre. But the tide seemed to be in?

    I have walked along there albeit it for just an hour or so. But from my armchair position back here in the U.K. I surmise the native sand is volcanic in origin, hence the dirty colour... I can see why the government might want to do a cosmetic job on it but I understand the thinking that the money could have been spent on the people themselves.

    One or two of the more recent articles in the newspaper remind us of Tony Oposa’s original Court case in 1999 on behalf of the clams :D and other sea life etc and that the whole cleanup thing goes back that far. But he is the first to point out the need to clean up the waters themselves which they appear to be doing now.

    “Oposa, a maverick lawyer who thought out of the box, included among the petitioners the tahong (mussels) and talaba (oysters).“It is a lonely journey to have as clients the sea and the fish, that do not pay attorney’s fees,” he mused then.” “

    Read more: https://opinion.inquirer.net/118932/battle-for-manila-bay-began-20-years-ago#ixzz6Ybd3i7PG
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    Anon220806, Sep 20, 2020
    #20
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