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Freedom of Movement

Discussion in 'News from the UK, Europe and the rest of the World' started by Anon220806, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    As you may recall, on balance I always wanted the UK to remain, on balance. But I always believed there were pluses and minuses to both sides of the Brexit debate. Curtailing freedom of movement will keep some happy and others not. I have been and still am curious about how it will pan out at the end of the year.
  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    That was a long time back John, yeah I do remember, but details in memory fade unless something is significant enough to make it stick long term.
  3. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Only time will tell, I still remember thinking the majority of brits wouldn't vote leave.
  4. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    Just to reiterate those already living and working here prior to 01.01.2021 have till the 30th June 2021 to apply to remain through the settlement scheme.
    Newcomers wanting to live and work in the UK after 1st Jan 2p21 will have to apply for a visa.
  5. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    Just to reiterate those already living and working here prior to 01.01.2021 have till the 30th June 2021 to apply to remain through the settlement scheme.
    Newcomers wanting to live and work in the UK after 1st Jan 2p21 will have to apply for a visa.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Exactly. You can say that again.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  7. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Agreed. There may end up a back door route to EU unskilled labour in the New Year. Remember what happened with the fruit pickers in the summer.
  8. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Hope not, I think those in power realise that an open door policy for 446,000,000 people isn't popular to the majority of british voters,or they should do, brexit was heavily tilted on the ANTI-FOM vote.
  9. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    The back door route as you put it is a legit scheme that if I remember correctly covered by Saws.Seasonal Annual Workers scheme it was curtailed a few years ago but reworked this year and will probably be developed in the future.
  10. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Of course it is legit. But is back door from the Brexiteers viewpoint. Many Brexiteers voted to close of the legitimate routes.

    I see you disagreed with my post 51. So with reference to that post, what do you think will happen when there is a shortfall in unskilled labour in the new year? Or do you think there will not be a shortfall? If so then why?
  11. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member


    Entry level is set at RQF3 as a minimum going upto level 8 (level 3 is above my educational attainment) and the minimum salary threshold lowered from £30k to £25600 for those coming to the UK WITH a job offer. This i believe is the basis of the visa points based system for EU after 2021, people without RQF3 or Scottish equivelent will be considered low skilled!
    However there maybe concessions for those earning at least ££20480 as long as they meet other requirements or if there occupation is short on staff, People in industries such as farming, nursing and catering might be considered low skilled, cleaners construction workers and paramedics may also be considered low skilled.
    there is a current estimate that 70% of the current eu workforce would not meet the skilled workforce route and there is a reported 3.4 million EU citizens living throughout the UK with most said to be unskilled or low skilled. These figures its been suggested could cut about 90000 EU workers from UK employment.

    I think UK businesses will need to adapt and adjust as we move towards the end of free movement and move away from reliance on the EU free movement system and develop and invest more in staff retention, productivity technology and automation.

    As I understand it there is to be a pilot scheme in place for fruit and veg pickers as there are fears that these roles are difficult to recruit into, this seasons recruitment drive it is estimated that only 112 out of 50000 UK based applicants took up roles in this area.

    As we move into the new year and out of covid I think the shake up in employment will be huge those businesses or individuals who sit and moan about how it used to be will struggle, businesses or individuals who take a proactive approach will hopefully be rewarded for their efforts, and with a great deal of effort little Johnny who is used to getting out of bed when he feels like it and accepting his fate as unemployable and is happy to draw the social will have to get working and be low skilled or upskilled.
    Oh and we can wash and valet our own cars too!
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  12. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Then we largely agree. I am beginning to see signs of manufacturing employers trying to adapt and get ahead of the game already. But not all.

    Incidentally, Isle of Man is / was very protectionist in this way. The upshot was that local people were always favoured by law over EU workers. This had a profound effect on the numbers of elderly people employed, as companies could not by law hire a younger person from within the EU instead of a 60 yo local person.

    The way things are stacked up right now. When manufacturers want to recruit in the new year many of those potential workers from the EU will not meet the following:

    • Language test requirements
    • Income requirements (minimum wage)
    • Skill requirements

    If employers can recruit from the existing pool within the U.K. then they will find it harder to step outside of that pool of labour.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  13. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Absolute fiction, the vast majority of EU citizens working in the UK up to 2017 were in skilled work, 579,000 at RQF 6+ level, 616,000 upper middle skill levels, 781,000 lower middle skilled, only 503,000 were in occupations classed as unskilled work.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....nity-low-skilled-work-migration-after-brexit/
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  14. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    Absolute fiction, the vast majority of EU citizens working in the UK up to 2017 were in skilled work, 579,000 at RQF 6+ level, 616,000 upper middle skill levels, 781,000 lower middle skilled, only 503,000 were in occupations classed as unskilled work.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....nity-low-skilled-work-migration-after-brexit/[/QUOTE]
    Outdated commentary.

    The 3.4 million quoted is as of a report generated in 2020 and quoted as used in the presentation of the immigration bill in February this year.
  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member


    It's 3.616 Million as of 2019 according to the ONS, yeah one day they will reclassify all the RQF 6+ as unskilled too, think about it by reclassifying EU citizens they just reclassified British citizens too, British people who maybe thought they were doing skilled jobs now have to face the reality that their government considers them bottom of the heap industrial cattle fodder.
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  16. Mattecube
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    Mattecube face the sunshine so shadows fall behind you Trusted Member

    A few have left I guess!
    As for the rest of your post... well I just won't go there!
    I'm out of this thread. Well done!
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    That may be true but the number of unskilled EU migrants working in factories across the length and breadth of the North West, is colossal. Many of which cannot speak English any better than a 3 yo kid. Unless the government tweaks the rules to accommodate them than they will not get in the U.K. in the new year.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    Some have left as you say. Reasons? Expectation that hostilities might develop, changes in exchange rate, Covid 19 issues and improving conditions back home.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The Poles I've met all have pretty good English, I accept that my experience is largely with Polish people and mostly fairly well educated Polish people and thus may not be representative.

    If they have applied to stay then surely they won't have a problem and nor will the businesses relying on them, the real question is how many will choose to stay.

    The next real problem is how many of these factory jobs will still exist after Covid, the food processing industry will probably not be greatly affected, other industries I don't know, how many unskilled assembly line jobs are there in factories in the North what kind of industries?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member



    I suppose I'll get beat up for posting this ;)
    • Funny Funny x 1

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