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China coronavirus spread is accelerating, Xi Jinping warns.

Discussion in 'News from the UK, Europe and the rest of the World' started by aposhark, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

  2. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    Why are they wearing masks in The Phillipines if there has only been 3 cases?
  3. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Fear! They don't want to 4, 5 or 6.
    It is self preservation.
  4. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Because ever since SARS Asians in general have imagined that masks would provide some protection, they don't really as the virus particles are far to small to be stopped by these masks, they offer minimal protection at best.

    Also I would bet that the actual number of cases is far higher, they probably don't have the resources to identify cases even if people were coming forward which they won't because they can't afford the medical fees.

    It'll only become obvious when enough people are dying to make it noticeable.

    Masks were also widely used during the recent Taal eruption which is actually a sensible use of them as anything to restrict the amount of volcanic ash getting in the lungs is a good thing, they are also used a lot in Manila anyway because of the general air quality in the street.

    edit: I am being unnecessarily and unfairly cynical about the Philippines ability to track Covid-19 this is closer to the current situation https://filipinotimes.net/news/2020/02/13/suspected-cases-covid-19-philippines-jumps-441-doh/ 230 cases so far and it is everywhere now, almost all over the country.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  5. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

  6. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  7. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

  8. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I read that Australia are thinking about cancelling large gatherings like sports matches and concerts.

    Wouldn't it be prudent to cancel things like this here immediately, as people have the virus without knowing it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Maharg
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    Maharg Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    I know this is a concern, but I do think some perspective is needed with this.

    Firstly, most cases are apparently mild.

    Secondly, the number of cases so far is roughly the capacity of Wembley Stadium. Throughout the World, that isn't many.

    Also, the figure is for people who have caught it. I wish they would give us the figures for people who have it now.

    There does seem to be an element of hysteria about this. If this was a flu outbreak, nobody would give a monkeys.
  10. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    i think there is a lot that the public are not being told about this. otherwise---why the over-reaction ?
  11. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    No the correct perspective is to be alarmed it is clearly easily transmitted and only 80% of diagnosed cases are mild, 16% have severe symptoms and up to 4% are critically ill requiring hospitalisation i.e. oxygen ventilation, of those 4% a quarter to a half are dying, generally the elderly or those with pre-existing health issues.

    It's an epidemic, indeed it is a pandemic even if the WHO won't admit it, given that they can state that 80% of diagnosed cases are mild there will be at least 2 to three times as many unreported cases that have not yet resulted in fatalities or reported illness, a lot of countries won't even have the resources to even test or to have any accurate idea of the number of cases.

    Nobody gives a monkey's about the flu because of the 1,000,000,000 (billion or so) people who get it every year only about 600,000 die, less than one tenth of 1 percent more accurately 0.06% usually again the elderly and already ill.

    This thing at a mortality rate of 1% would be 16 times worse than the flu, at 2% it's 32 times worse then the flu, at the 4% or higher, numbers that are coming out of Iran, you're looking at 64 time worse than the flu and the Iran numbers could be for a more virulent strain.

    The number of cases so far means nothing, what matters is the size of the foothold and the transmissibility, there is some evidence so far to show that the incubation period can be much longer than the 14 days quarantine so far being used, some think it could be up to 24 days, which if correct means that the measures taken so far were worthless in terms of containment.

    This thing will spread it will be uncontainable and unless we get very lucky a lot of people will die.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Thanks, Jim, that is the best explanation I have read.

    I still think cancelling public gatherings would be for the best, even if it upsets some people.
    I bet the Chinese wished they had stopped people from moving everywhere at the end of January during Chinese New Year.
    Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    If they start closing schools though, that will upset a lot of people as their earnings will drop significantly.
    I hope then that people will see the bigger picture.
  13. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

  14. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    A British chap on that cruise ship in Japan has just died I hope it is not the chap that had been shown many times on the TV news for over a week while in quarantine.

    He and his wife were removed to a hospital after both being diagnosed quite late on in the quarantine period.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  16. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I think the couple filmed were David and Sally Abel from Northamptonshire.
  17. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I will be surprised if schools are not closed in March for a while.
  18. bigmac
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    bigmac Well-Known Member Trusted Member

    just to get it all in perspective, i found on google the population of wuhan is about 11 million. how many cases have been reported from that area, and deaths ?
  19. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Malcolm the Chinese are a totalitarian state, they put the entire country in lockdown cases are at this point in time falling, they actually did the right thing, western countries will never attain that level of discipline.

    And, there is no guarantee that they really are on top of it, it could emerge again elsewhere in China as they are now trying to let people get back to work.

    78,000 cases and over 2700 dead in Hubei province, likelihood of many more unreported cases in that province, that is 0.025% of the 11 million in Wuhan smaller than flu, but that is not the issue.

    It's already out and spreading in many many countries now, countries with far less top down authority.

    The problem is that a virus can and usually does spread in an exponential fashion, the main factor determining that spread is how easily it spreads from person to person and a secondary factor is can it spread without the host showing symptoms, for SARS it was quite hard to catch it from an infected individual, for Covid-19 we don't have enough data yet to know how easily it spreads, but we do know it spreads much faster than SARS.

    The ratio of diagnosed infections to deaths will likely remain pretty much the same no matter how many get infected, the issue is to prevent the number of infected people increasing, the WHO still think it can be contained, well lets hope so.

    Preventing it spreading needs the kind of draconian measures they have taken in China, so do you think Africa will be able to do that when it arrives there, how about India or for that matter the Philippines where it's already arrived, or Iran where it looks out of control and has been there for at least 2 weeks.

    Most Flu seasons fizzle out as warmer weather arrives let's hope this Covid-19 virus is true to form for the family of coronaviruses to which it belongs.

    An additional real danger is that this virus becomes seasonal, taking 2% of the population per annum, it will be at least a year before there is a vaccine and longer before there is enough vaccine to act as a barrier.

    edit: vaccines work not just by protecting individuals but in doing so they act as a barrier to transmission, if in any group of people 3 or 4 are vaccinated and effectively immune the number of vectors or paths for the virus to travel are greatly reduced.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  20. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

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