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Coronavirus in the UK

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by aposhark, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    The first thing I thought was that there are 7,000+ islands so travel is harder.
    The second thought I had was about how honest the authorities are.
    The next and worrying thing is that the problem could kick in later.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Firstly the demographics as shown below, that will simply help because the age 50 and under population generally are at lower risk based on the stats available so far, in spite of the individual tragedies that are happening here in the UK.

    Secondly the 'attack rate' pretty much more or less the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) in the Phils is not that good it is close to 5% ((182/3870) *100 = 4.7%) today, and then there is their testing 24,000 tests total that's 224 per million.

    Italy has now done 807,125 tests a rate of 13,564 per million population and that's scary with their current CFR of 12%.

    Germany (maybe a bit more random testing) 918,460 tests that's 10,962 per million population, CFR of about 2%.

    The UK CFR is currently above 10% but we know that and it has climbed steadily in the last fortnight.

    The Philippine CFR is higher than the CFR in the USA right now, but how good are the RP statistics, I honestly don't know but with that level of testing I'd like some additional reports from their mortuaries on general deaths in the population right now.

    I know the Phils has a lot of good very underpaid scientists and maybe the reason the lockdown has been extended is that they are privy to some extra information.

    It's a young country demographically, but it has a lot of lung problems already because of the very poor air quality in some Metropolitan areas, and on the raw numbers that exist right now they are not doing that much better than western countries like Spain and Italy were a few weeks ago, although we can assume the presence of the virus in the Philippines from very early February.

    Philippine demographic distribution.
    upload_2020-4-8_22-32-53.png
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  3. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I was just chatting with my sister on the phone.
    She used to be a staff nurse and a lead health visitor with many health visitors "under" her.
    She asked me if we were taking Vitamin D. She made a point of telling me that darker skinned people need it more.

    Some people are at greater risk of vitamin D deficiency including: People with naturally very dark skin. This is because the pigment (melanin) in dark skin doesn't absorb as much UV radiation. ... Breast-fed babies of vitamin D deficient mothers (formula milk is fortified with vitamin D).
  4. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I have been on vitamin D for a month, initially very high dose of 100 micrograms daily, now a more reasonable dosage of 25 micrograms daily, most of us in the UK are deficient in Vitamin D and I for one definitely am.

    Yes people with dark skin do need it more particularly when they are living in northern latitudes, but when out and about in a sunny country their skin makes it fine, it is one of the reasons they have dark skin to attenuate the production of Vitamin D as well as to protect from UV radiation.

    You can overdose on Vitamin D so you do have to be careful but your skin won't make too much however your fat cells will store any extra Vitamin D that you take, I think it is also important to take Vitamin K but I would have to check that again, it's to prevent calcification in the arteries.

    edit: that was a Dr John Campbell hint re vitamin D that's why I started taking it.
  5. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    I thought of all of those too. But I also thought of diet as a factor. Correct me if I am wrong but the diet of my extended family is nothing like our typical western type diet. Do you think the huge disparity could be dietary. Interestingly what my wife eats now is nothing like what she used to eat. And since landing in the U.K. in 2011 has put on a lot of weight. Mrs Ash eats a very carbohydrate oriented diet now compared to the Philippines where only the rice fell into the category. Now she still eats the rice, possibly in larger quantities than before but also plenty of all the good stuff that she ate so much rarely back in the Philippines.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  6. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Fresh from the press.

    It appears to me that the socio-economic situation in the various groups does impact a lot.
    I suppose it is too early to make a definite report, but as the situation develops futher we will be able to get to conclusions and act on them
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  7. Anon220806
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    Anon220806 Well-Known Member

    New Orleans is getting hammered. Socio economic factors will count but the underlying route cause across the globe from all of the stats appears to be comorbidities or underlying preconditions. There appears to be one or two exceptions in all of the stats but figures over 90% for comorbidities is universal. This is being picked up on in the world of medicine, dietetics Etc etc.

    Why is New Orleans getting hammered 7 times over compared to New York?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/w...mes-new-yorks-obesity-is-a-factor/ar-BB12486j

    Anybody interested in cholesterol, good bad or otherwise, there is a chap called Ivor Cummings aka Fat Emperor. He is a biochemical engineer that turned his attention to dietary contributions to heart disease. He has a number of YouTube recordings now making his work readily available to the public however if you listen to them they are not so simplistic as we have come to expect. The whole cholesterol thing is not as straight forward as good and bad LDL and HDL cholesterol. But what has become apparent is that the people that told us that eggs cheese butter full fat milk and animal fats would clog up our arteries were wrong. The evidence for that assertion was not founded on sound science.

    Man with his highly developed brain has been around for thousands of years on a diet of animal fats and dairy fats. The high carbohydrate diet has only been around for about 30 or 40 years, which coincides with the modern era of chronic diseases such as hypertension and heart failure and diabetes etc. Many are pointing towards our ancestral diet as a means to tackle modern chronic diseases and COVID 19. It seems that when we eat meat, the vitamins generated by the animal are passed onto us, that is as opposed to a bowl of rice or a packet of biscuits.

    Herd immunity is destined to be lower in a population on a typical western diet.

    40BE7E59-DA64-4A19-A255-B9CDAF54B19E.jpeg
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  8. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    It's the "good stuff" that piles on the pounds, John, for sure and for everyone.
    Cakes, ice cream, fast food, bread, sugar and sweets. Things like that.
    You are right saying that our diet is a factor. For example, my wife's teeth are wonderful compared to mine at her age.

    My wife said that many people on her island have high blood pressure and she thinks it because many eat a lot of salty dried fish.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  9. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    far cough.jpg
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  10. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Beautiful day today 23 degrees and sunny,people still seem to be socially distancing.Another filipino nurse has died in London,I saw some eye-catching billboards in the city today "NHS-NSH"National Health Service-Now Stay Home.
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  11. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Another "Clap For Carers" was held tonight at 8pm.

    More people were in the road tonight.
    Some neighbours and I are saying the same thing: "Hi, how are you doin'" then "See you next week" :like:
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  12. Druk1
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    Druk1 Well-Known Member

    Lots of fireworks being let off and car horns sounding as well as clapping, the appreciation is a countrywide community thing.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I have to admit Mike that I am not particularly fond of this kind of public spectacle although I understand in this world and at this time why this happens.

    I tend towards quieter less public appreciation, there was one picture I saw in the last few days, I think it was in the USA, there was a healthcare worker carrying a home made placard with the words :-
    This was in the context of the failure of the authorities to provide proper personal protective equipment (PPE) and I have a lot of sympathy for that message be it here in the UK or anywhere else.

    While I don't agree with PorkAdobo on his current general stance there are aspects of this "clap for the NHS" movement that does not sit well with me maybe for different reasons.

    I have utter respect and sympathy for all the people who have been plunged into dealing with a deadly plague when all they signed up for was to help people in difficulty, in this modern world of antibiotics the horrors of past disease have been largely removed, only specialist health care staff ever have to deal with contagious disease but now all that has changed.

    This brings up another very important point, the age of antibiotics is coming to an end as more and more bacteria become resistant to known antibiotics, partly through prior misuse of these treatments in the past.

    And antibiotic research has been stalled for years because it is not economic, not efficient, not profitable to invest in antibiotics compared to designer treatments for modern day age related problems like cancer.

    While we have few treatments for viruses we created the modern world out of removing the spectre of bacterial disease but that day is ending.

    We have already set up the next pandemic through simple neglect and the pursuit of profit, and to be honest that was the one I was expecting with my usual pessimism not this Covid-19.

    edit: for what it is worth antibiotic resistant TB already exists, in other words there already exists a version of TB that NO antibiotic known to us can treat.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  14. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Everyone has feelings about this issue, Jim, but I think the clapping will only help to make them all feel appreciated. It is a positive thing and the world needs as much +ve as possible.
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  15. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    I agree Mike but is also has a coercive component and that part worries me.
  16. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    And I mean that the coercive component is directed against NHS staff, I don't mean that I personally feel coerced to support this meme, it is the effect of this meme on the NHS staff in putting pressure on them that worries me.
  17. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    Better for them to be saluted and vocally appreciated than not. :like:
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  18. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    Yeah I agree, but it's still got undertones and it is still not fully right, we are doing it because we know we have let them down personally, by failure of foresight and failure to provide the resources they need in advance.

    This situation was avoidable there is no good reason that we could not have planned to provide proper support by now in late January, but we didn't and now we are clapping them on, don't you see the tragedy.
  19. aposhark
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    aposhark Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    I think the NHS staff are far too busy to think about these things - they just need our support now, Jim :like:
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  20. oss
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    oss Somewhere Staff Member

    The assumption that everyone will rise to the challenge without fear is a frightening one.

    I am hiding from this thing at home, heroes are heroes not because anyone tells them they are but because they just are, because they get out of bed each morning and go to do something extraordinary which endangers them and their families, not for their own sake or for appreciation but because they believe it is the right thing to do.

    Yes I support them Mike, who couldn't, but that does not mean that we are not pressuring them, they would gladly do it even without the clapping, yes it will have a morale boosting effect, but six weeks from now when many more healthcare workers are dead this appreciation will be wearing very thin and the practical reality of PPE supplies will be far higher on the agenda.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
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