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Labour's Disreputable Leadership

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Ethics' started by Markham, Oct 11, 2015.

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  1. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    That the Labour Party's key figures are apologists for terrorism was reinforced by Ken Livingstone on BBC's Question Time last night. Whilst the panel was debating the bombing of IS in Syria, Livingstone claimed that Tony Blair was directly responsible for the London Bus and Tube bombings that took place on July 7, 2005. He told the audience: "They did those killings because of our invasion of Iraq. They gave their lives, they said what they believed. They took Londoners' lives in protest at our invasion of Iraq."

    Also on the panel was the comedian and former Labour aide Matt Forde who described Livingstone's remarks as 'shameful', while co-panellist Kate Andrews, from think-tank the Adam Smith Institute, accused him of 'accepting their [the terrorists'] excuses'.

    Giving their views on social media, moderate Labour MPs were appalled. John Woodcock, Labour MP for Barrow and Furness, wrote on Twitter: "Not politely taking this any more … No one has mandate to side with suicide bombers." Gavin Shuker, Labour MP for Luton South, added: "The 7/7 bombers didn’t give their lives; they took the lives of others. What is happening to my party?" Meanwhile, the Tory MP for Dudley North, Ian Austin, called Mr Livingstone a 'total disgrace', adding: "The people responsible are the terrorists. I think it’s shameful."

    Back in 2005, Livingstone was the Mayor of London and in the immediate aftermath of the bombings said: "This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Minister. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any consideration for age, for class, for religion, or whatever. That isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith – it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other". Quite a marked contrast from his answers last evening.
  2. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Oldham West and Syria: two democratic issues that will test Corbyn's authority next week, possibly to destruction. In theory the former should give him no cause for concern, this was Michael Meacher's seat which he held with a huge majority after all. But since the General Election there's been a change of Labour Leader to one that the Labour voters in this constituency appear to be increasingly less keen on. His refusal to sing the National Anthem and his stance towards terrorists does not endear him to many patriotic northerners who believe he hates the working class, Britain and the British. Corbyn has not been to Oldham since November 6 when he launched Labour's campaign but was due to visit again early next week in an attempt to bolster the Labour candidate's chances.

    Little wonder, therefore, that Ukip - whose candidate narrowly beat the Tories' and were the runners-up back in May and has witnessed a growing level of support by former Labour voters - is throwing all its resources at this seat. Its chances of taking it could be further enhanced by Tory voters voting tactically.

    However Corbyn has cancelled his day's campaigning 'up north' to concentrate on twisting the arms of his Shadow Cabinet members into supporting his pacifist stance on Syria. There was a stormy Shadow Cabinet meeting on Thursday evening during which Comrade Corbyn was unable to convince those who plan to vote with the government to change their minds. They agreed to 'relect' over the weekend and revisit the issue on Monday. After that meeting Corbyn emailed them and told them that he will still vote against the government and wants their support. That came hours after he had told a shadow Cabinet meeting that they would reach a “collective decision” at another shadow Cabinet meeting on Monday. He apparently plans to impose a 'Three Line Whip' on his MPs and sack any Shadow Ministers who defy the Whip. This has resulted in uproar on the Labour benches with Shadow Ministers accusing Corbyn of being "fundamentally dishonest" and treating them with "contempt" and moderate MPs are baying for Corbyn's resignation; like a pack of hounds they've scented their quarry and want to dispose of the fox.

    [​IMG]

    Even François Hollande, whose Anglophilia is not much practised, popped-up at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Malta and appealed to Labour MPs to support the government so that Britain can join France in the already crowded skies above Syria.

    So should Labour MPs be given a free vote or should they be forced to vote according to their Leader's demands? Corbyn can't win either way. If he gives MPs a free vote, he is effectively saying to the electorate 'Labour does not have a position regarding the bombing of Syria. We are neither for it nor against it.' That is political suicide and will ensure that Labour will not form a government ever in the foreseeable future - defence of the nation is one of the most important requirements of a government and a party that has no position of a matter of defence is rightly regarded as not being fit to govern. The alternative - the 'Three Line Whip' - is only marginally better but it will provoke yet another PR nightmare as Shadow Ministers either resign or are sacked (on orders from Momentum) and Corbyn will have major problems in filling the posts.

    Make no mistake: Corbyn fully intends to realise his ambition and be Britain's first dictator just as his idols Stalin, Mao and Castro were in Russia, China and Cuba. Hopefully the electorate will see sense and put an end to such nonsense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2015
  3. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Its plain to see that Jeremy has problems. Many of them. Even his deputy has called for air strikes. No I'm not making it up, its not some right wing claptrap. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sh-air-strikes-on-isis-in-syria-a6752291.html Tom Watson has said 'I am the deputy leader of the Labour Party with a mandate'. Even Paul Flynn, for whom I have the greatest respect for, has claimed 'Labour was in a “terrible, terrible mess”'.

    I'll give Jeremy another month at the most. It's all well and good being a party leader with principles, but if your party disagrees with you in public, it's not good. The Tories have learned that, they are ruthless when it comes to shedding leaders who are a burden.
  4. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Tom Watson isn't the only Shadow Cabinet member or prominent Labour MP who is against Corbyn over this issue - Hilary Benn, Sadiq Khan (Labour's candidate for London Mayor), the Eagle sisters, Michael Dugher, Lilian Greenwood, Heidi Alexander, Vernon Coaker, Lucy Powell, Chris Bryant, Labour's leader in the Lords Baroness Smith .... the list of dissenters goes on and on!

    Here's our 'hero' out collecting his morning coffee yesterday morning - doesn't he own a kettle?!

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    Notice his natty grey shell-suit bearing the Wilson name - apart from the fact that it's several sizes too big for him, I think it's highly likely that he bought the synthetic garment about 30 or so years ago when such was fashionable (for those who liked such things). Either that or it's counterfeit. I've checked Wilson's American and British web sites and they appear not to sell shell-suits at all, never mind ones made of grey polyester material with black and red highlight flashes.

    He was due to address a Stop The War rally outside Downing Street yesterday but pulled-out leaving hard-left Labour Luvvie Mark Rylance (the actor) to cause a stir in his place.

    [​IMG]

    And seemingly Rylance did not disappoint. Astonishingly he claimed that IS are "not enemies", that the West is to blame for killing innocent people in Iraq and that Cameron should talk to IS and not bomb them. Corbyn was no doubt very proud but Labour MP Keith Vaz retorted "Mark Rylance is a brilliant actor, but his analysis of the current situation regarding counter-terrorism is hopelessly wrong. Islamic State is unlike any other group the world has known."
  5. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    [​IMG]
    One piece of advice from Mao's Little Red Book that Corbyn will doubtless continue to ignore!
  6. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Over the last 36 hours or so, Corbyn has done two things which are likely to ensure the Labour Party is out of power for at least another ten years and may also have hastened his own departure. Firstly let's be clear: he and his supporters have made much of the statistic that he was elected Leader by almost 60% and as a result has a powerful mandate. However, that figure only represents around 240,000 people - Labour Party members and three quid supporters - and not the several million who support the party at an election. He has no mandate from them. But he has opened up the question of 'who should Labour MPs listen to - Party members or the wider Labour-voting electorate?'

    In interviews over the weekend, he stated that MPs must take Party members' views into account - and not the wider electorate's - in this week's Syria vote, 50% of whom are against air strikes whilst a higher percentage of Corbyn supporters are against air strikes. It has to be said that there's a far greater level of support for air strikes in Syria amongst voters and his insistence that MPs listen only to party members will not play well for Labour long term. Even his left wing lieutenants are divided with McDonnell wanting a free vote but former lover Diane Abbott insisting that the shadow cabinet and MPs unite and vote according to their leader's instructions. But today the Party has announced that Corbyn will give his MPs a free vote.

    Two BIG Mistakes!

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    With McDonnell's lack-lustre performance on the economy on Wednesday, an opinion poll published yesterday reveals that Labour is not trusted on the economy by voters and now the knowledge that Labour has no position on fighting terrorism, the Party has shown the country that it is not a government in waiting but a bunch of agit-prop wannabees although in Corbyn's, McDonnell's and Abbott's cases, 'failed has-beens' would be more appropriate! It would have been far better for the Labour Party had Corbyn decided to whip his MPs into voting his way and deal with dissenters - of whom there'd be at least 50 and most of the Shadow Cabinet. Corbyn would have to sack most of his Shadow Cabinet and all those who voted against the party line would be disciplined by the NEC.

    Labour is sleep-walking in this nightmare the membership has visited on the party and they need to take action to make itself electable. The certain trouncing of Labour by the SNP at the Scottish Parliamentary election next May may well embolden Nicola Sturgeon and give her the mandate to demand a further referendum for Scotland which Cameron would be advised to agree to and which will likely lead to Scotland leaving the Union, cheered on by the Corbynistas. But Labour needs Scottish MPs if it is to form a government at Westminster. I'm sure you can join-up the dots!

    Meanwhile Diane Abbott is causing something of a controversy in her north London constituency

    [​IMG]

    She is backing a plan to close 13 road junctions in Hackney, East London, which could create a boost to the value of her home despite there being hundreds of objections to the plan. The plan would ban through traffic on her road but, according to opposers, would create serious traffic bottle-necks elsewhere with a consequent rise in air pollution and lowering of house values. But Diane's house will top a million in value so that's alright then.

    Where is the new politics Corbyn promised? As far as I can see, all he and his motley crew of fellow travellers is offering is the old style dressed-up with cynicism and threats against those who dare to defy their leader.
  7. Markham
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    Markham Guest


    Labour's 'new gentler kind of politics' .... selective amnesia and lack of empathy.
  8. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    Can't remember where I heard this from and I hope I get it right.......

    "The mother of all idiots and dishonest imbeciles is always happily pregnant........ But the mother of honesty and fairness has sadly reached the menopause."
  9. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Another example of "Dear Leader's" 'new gentler kind of politics':

    Mike Gapes, the veteran Labour MP for Ilford South and a thoroughly decent human being, has already let it be known that he intends to vote with the government in favour of air strikes on IS in Syria. As indeed are over 100 of his fellow backbenchers and most of the Shadow Cabinet. Unfortunately for Mr Gapes, he was rushed into hospital on Friday night suffering from chest pains and has had emergency surgery.

    Corbyn-supporting Twitter trolls have been celebrating Gapes' misfortune: for example, a certain Mike Hemmings tweeted "Maybe it's better if he resigns as MP then, after all Gapes is just another #RedTory. At least he wont be there to vote for air strikes on Syria". Another troll calling herself Rosa Luxenburg tweeted "Just an indication of how many of them are #StinkingRedTories. Let's hope a few more end up like Mike Gapes."

    Wes Streeting, Labour MP for the neighbouring constituency Ilford North, reacted angrily to the attacks on Gapes. He said: "It shows how nasty some parts of the Labour party has become when they wish someone ill. I had to block one guy today who said: "I wish Mike a speedy recovery so he is well enough for the deselection process". It's unbelievable. I think the overwhelming majority of Labour would wish Mike a speedy recovery but these is a rotten streak running through the party at the moment, and these messages show what's going on behind the scenes. These are people who have joined the party despite not believing what it stands for and after spending years campaigning against us. Some of these have repulsive views and they will try to bully anyone who disagrees with them. There is no place for it and I am disgusted by it".

    Echoes of SNP activist behaviour here. Has it occurred to these Corbynista trolls that the good people of Ilford might well have petitioned their MPs to support the government on this occasion? No, I though not too.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2015
  10. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Now who is the Nasty Party!

    It's a battle of the u-turns - how sad and pathetic British politics is these days.
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  11. Aromulus
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    Aromulus The Don Staff Member

    I always thought of labour being the divisive "us and them" party.
    Pretty consistent in the bs department.
    It was refreshing to see the gang of 4 split up from the ranks. Pity they couldnt capitalize on the momentum.
  12. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    It is, Rob, it certainly is. To further stoke the fires, Corbyn has just warned his MPs that there is no hiding place if they ignore his wishes and vote with the government. And almost as if signalling his Momentum activists to seek retribution against those disloyal MPs, he stated that they will have to answer to party members if they ignore grassroots opposition to military action in tomorrow's vote. What he means by "party members" is, of course, the 208 thousand members and three quiders who support him; not the Labour membership as a whole.

    I do expect that by 2020 most, if not all, local constituency parties will have been infiltrated and taken-over by Momentum activists. Moderate and Blairite MPs be deselected and replaced by hard-left candidates, with the membership at large being bullied into acceptance and submission. That is the reality of Corbyn's "new gentle politics".
  13. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Oh dear, talk about own goals ....

    Yesterday afternoon, Labour Party HQ contacted its volunteers that were due to carry-out some telephone canvassing at Labour's London HQ in support of their candidate in the Oldham By Election:

    upload_2015-12-2_15-36-25.png
    The safety of those attending the canvassing event could not be guaranteed because Stop the War announced they would be marching on the party's HQ in protest at Corbyn's decision to allow a free vote:

    upload_2015-12-2_16-6-20.png

    Even though Labour frontbencher and Corbyn ally, Richard Burgon, was one of the rally's leaders, marchers were unable to identify which building actually was One Brewer Green - that being the address of Labour's headquarters - and marched straight past, even though there were quite a few Policemen in high-vis jackets stationed guarding the place!!


    [​IMG]

    That's got to be two-nil at least!!

    :rolleyes::lol:
  14. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Last night, Labour MPs thought to be voting for air strikes received emails threatening them with de-selection, the text of which reads:

    Six months after the Vote on bombing Syria the Labour Party Members will lobby in the Constituency Labour Parties to move a vote of no confidence at constituencies meetings in those Labour Party MPs who vote to bomb Syria. If the Vote of no confidence is carried the MPs can then limp on until their selection at the next General Election when they will be deselected. During the 4 year period in the run up to the next general election the whole country will now [sic] of the no confidence in the MPs from their Labour Party constituencies. That is the least the Labour Party members will do to try to wash the blood from their hands of the innocent civilians which the bombs will surely kill.

    The spelling-and-grammatically-challenged missive is believe to have originated from Momentum, Corbyn's Stasi-esque band of hardline enforcers who are also believed to be behind the sending of an estimated 400,000 similar emails to the party's MPs over the last week.

    Corbyn's new politics is one of intimidation.
  15. Methersgate
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    Methersgate Well-Known Member Lifetime Member

    On a happier note, I like every other member of the LibDems got this email:


    [​IMG]
    Dear Andrew,

    The decision every politician dreads is whether or not to send brave servicemen and women into military action in defence of our country.

    When the Government asked MPs to support extending airstrikes into Syria in 2013 to target Assad, I refused to provide that support. I was not convinced at that time our intervention was properly effective, nor that it would be backed by a diplomatic effort to establish a lasting peace or prevent more suffering than it caused.

    In response to that deep-rooted scepticism last time, I wrote to the Prime Minister last week together with Nick Clegg, Paddy Ashdown, Ming Campbell, Kirsty Williams and Willie Rennie setting out five principles against which the Liberal Democrats believe the case for extension of military action against ISIL in Syria should be based.

    It is my judgement that, on balance, the five tests I set out have been met as best they can. I will therefore be asking my parliamentary colleagues to join me in the lobby to support this motion.

    I have written in more length about how I have reached my decision. I hope you will take the time to read it here.

    I believe it is right to support what is a measured, legal and broad-based international effort to tackle the evil regime that has contributed to the hundreds of thousands of desperate refugees, fleeing for their lives.

    As a Liberal Democrat I am an internationalist. I believe in acting collectively with our friends and our European allies, joining Germany, France, Denmark, the Netherlands and others in responding to threats to our security within a framework of international law.

    I was a proud supporter of Charles Kennedy when he led his MPs into the lobbies against an illegal war in Iraq on the basis of a dossier that sought to contrive a threat where none existed. This war has cast a long shadow over Britain's role in the world and has severely damaged the confidence that the British people have in our intelligence services and the decisions of our Prime Ministers.

    But this is not Iraq.

    The Liberal Democrats were also the first party to call for action in Bosnia and Kosovo led by Paddy Ashdown. We call for action again now. The threat to Britain and our allies is clear. We can and must play a part to extinguish ISIL.

    I am well aware that many in the party will disagree with me. I hope that, even if you cannot support me, you can support the approach I have taken and recognise that I have taken this difficult decision after the fullest consideration.

    Best wishes,

    Tim
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  16. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    John McDonnell is clearly not the sharpest tool in the box. With all the furore over activists trolling those Labour MPs who voted in favour of air strikes against Daesh - which included some death threats - that is hogging newspaper column inches and filling the airwaves, this Corbynista wasn't feeling the love and so decided to do something about it. He told his online followers that those who voted against the air strikes were also being targeted and, to prove his point, posted a screen capture of a Tweet he'd received:

    [​IMG]
    Anyone not spot the infantile error?

    Unsurprisingly he rather quickly deleted it but not before copies were made and circulated!

    :lol:
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2015
  17. Markham
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    Markham Guest

    Last night the Labour Party held its Christmas Party and Dear Leader did precisely what Dear Leader is very good at doing and that's causing dismay to members of his audience. Rather than fill them with seasonal cheer and festive greetings, he quoted words spoken by Enver Hoxha, who ruled Albania with an iron fist from 1944 until his death in 1985 and was blamed for the deaths, torture and imprisonment of 100,000 Albanians. Corbyn repeated the dictator's phrase that "this year will be tougher than last year".

    On Friday Dear Leader will be the star turn at Stop The War's Christmas fund-raiser at a Turkish restaurant in central London. This despite being urged to pull-out by his own MPs including Tristram Hunt. Corbyn will deliver the main speech and will be accompanied to the event by his fellow hard left Parliamentary travellers, John McDonnell and Diane Abbott - who, I read, will do a turn on stage showcasing her belly dancing talent - who knew?!

    [​IMG]

    One MP who won't be there is Caroline Lucas who has very recently resigned from the agit-prop group where she was a patron. Her spokesman explained her decision: "Caroline was specifically troubled by some Stop the War Coalition statements after the Paris atrocities. Though the pieces were subsequently taken down she felt unable to associate herself with them. She was also concerned that some Syrian voices were not given an opportunity to speak at a recent meeting organised by the StWC in Parliament."

    This is one of the statements the Brighton MP objects to:

    [​IMG]
    Joining Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell is likely to be this member of the Shadow Cabinet

    [​IMG]
    He's Richard Burgon, who until he was elected as MP for Leeds East last May, was a trades union lawyer and that apparently makes him eminently qualified to be the Shadow Treasury minister and de facto Shadow City minister. Except of course that he's never actually met anyone who works in the Square Mile, nor has he any plans to. One major bank is reported to have said that they not only didn't know him, but didn't care either. The Canary Wharf-based firm is restricting its contact with the Labour Party to Chuka Umunna alone - but he's currently topping the deselection charts.

    Burgon's loyalty to the Labour Party must surely be in question for he took part in the Stop The War picket outside the Party's HQ on an evening when they were to have held a phone canvassing event in support of Jim McMahon, the Party's candidate in the Oldham West By Election. That phone canvassing event had to be cancelled.

    But none of that matters. Comrade Corbyn's plan for world domination does not include the Labour Party whose machinery which he is systematically dismantling and replacing with single-issue agitators - like Stop The War - as only they are sufficiently hard left for his taste. It is a methodology once favoured by Trotsky and Mao.

    Dear Leader is trying to buck the global trend which is moving a way from leftist politics. In Argentina a centre-right candidate has ousted Cristina de Kirchner, the country's hard left former President whilst in Venezuela, Corbyn's mate, Nicolas Maduro, has been trounced in the polls.

    [​IMG]

    Maduro's Socialist Party has lost control of the National Assembly with the opposition gaining 99 seats. In France, Hollande's socialists are threatened with being routed by Marine Le Pen's National Front whose niece, Marion, looks like capturing southern regions of France for the party. Estimates show the Front National in first place on 28% and the ruling socialists on 23%. In Denmark, Austria and Germany, parties on the right are on the ascendant and former Soviet Bloc members of the EU are also becoming increasingly right wing - Hungary and Poland being two examples. And the US appears to be lurching rightwards as a consequence of the recent terrorist attack in California.

    In dismantling the Labour Party, he's also ensuring that the Conservatives are the party of government for many years to come. What he doesn't get is that the majority of the voting population is politically centrist and don't like or want in power politicians from either the far left or far right. I predict that if Corbyn remains as leader, in 2020 his party will have fewer MPs than the Lib Dems (who will form the Opposition), fewer than the SNP and very likely fewer than Ukip too!
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2015
  18. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

  19. walesrob
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    walesrob Administrator Staff Member

    Such flawed logic. So you don't agree with how your MP votes, so you think its fine to be rude to them and send pictures of dead children. What a nice person you must be (this is not aimed at you personally Keith). As if the RAF are deliberately targeting children anyway. In war there is always collateral damage, has history taught us nothing?

    Oh, I don't think Labour are qualified to talk all about war and targeting innocents. As if 2003 never happened. But that's Labour for you - bunch of hypocrites.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. KeithAngel
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    KeithAngel 2063 Lifetime Member

    It depends who you mean by "Labour" Millions marched against the Iraq war (still waiting for that pesky report) In a democracy everyone is free to join a Political Party and ague for there views of what that party,s policies should be, thats always going to be in a state of change so while I agree it was terrible for a "Labour leader" to make that decision in 03 we now have the opportunity to bring about change and avoid the charge of hypocrisy (course Mark will ague that makes Labour un electable ) you rightly levy, any MP that wont support the policies of the Party is answerable to there local party and the electorate including the Leader
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